Reply to: SA Tax return

[QwertyBerty]

Just had a quick look, the dividend you put in the paper form should not include the tax credit.

QB.

[QwertyBerty]

I ended up judging it on the fact that PAYE is the GROSS figure, so the Dividend must be the same surely! Plus the auto calculation from HMRC themselves added on the 10% as Income. Anyway, be interesting to hear other people's thoughts on this. I can still change it anyway.....!

Nothing is simple in the world of HMRC is it!

Very true. I'll double check later.

QB.

[rawly]

Mmm, my understanding was the dividend figures do not include the tax credit (on the paper form at least...)

QB.

I ended up judging it on the fact that PAYE is the GROSS figure, so the Dividend must be the same surely! Plus the auto calculation from HMRC themselves added on the 10% as Income. Anyway, be interesting to hear other people's thoughts on this. I can still change it anyway.....!

Nothing is simple in the world of HMRC is it! I guess it is how you interprete "Derived Income anywhere on this Form" - I took it as meaning the Total Income shown as the Input to the whole 'SA form' - which isn't quite the same as the income I actually received in my bank after all Taxes etc.... But they didn't ask that did they - or did they!

[QwertyBerty]

On another note regarding the 'service company' figure. Going by the final calculation done online, it breaks down the "Income" bit at the end. The PAYE total is straightforward, but I did ponder over the Dividend bit. As HMRC added the 10% Tax Credit on, and deemed this as 'income' (even though it it cancelled out again later), in my Box for income derived from service company I did it on <PAYE>+<DIVIDEND>+<10% CREDIT ON DIVIDEND>.

Wasn't too sure about this, but I think I did it correctly! Anyway, at least you can edit the online Form now within 12 Months of submission.

Mmm, my understanding was the dividend figures do not include the tax credit (on the paper form at least...)

QB.

[rawly]

On another note regarding the 'service company' figure. Going by the final calculation done online, it breaks down the "Income" bit at the end. The PAYE total is straightforward, but I did ponder over the Dividend bit. As HMRC added the 10% Tax Credit on, and deemed this as 'income' (even though it it cancelled out again later), in my Box for income derived from service company I did it on <PAYE>+<DIVIDEND>+<10% CREDIT ON DIVIDEND>.

Wasn't too sure about this, but I think I did it correctly! Anyway, at least you can edit the online Form now within 12 Months of submission.

[Moscow Mule]

Correct me if I am wrong but presumably they said you were a service company on the P35 (it seems a lot of accountants did this) so now they have no choice but to continue down that path and fill in the box on the return. Whereas a lot of us answered no to the service company question on the P35 following advice at the time by ICAEW.

Not really the case - the wording in the guidance is very specific on what constitutes a "Service Company" so (mostly) if you're a Ltd, you should fill it in.

[QwertyBerty]

Correct me if I am wrong but presumably they said you were a service company on the P35 (it seems a lot of accountants did this) so now they have no choice but to continue down that path and fill in the box on the return. Whereas a lot of us answered no to the service company question on the P35 following advice at the time by ICAEW.

But due to HMRC wording for the P35 questions, you could say you filled it in wrong (and here HMRC have said there's no need to make a correction) and therefore complete the SA in a contradictory manner.

QB.

[Lewis]

Not sure about the printed copy of the pdf, but on my electronic version the figure for "income derived through services company" is populated (i.e. doesn't disappear).

As an aside, regarding the debate as to whether the box should be completed at all it would appear that SJD (my appointed tax advisors) have deemed it appropriate to do so.

Correct me if I am wrong but presumably they said you were a service company on the P35 (it seems a lot of accountants did this) so now they have no choice but to continue down that path and fill in the box on the return. Whereas a lot of us answered no to the service company question on the P35 following advice at the time by ICAEW.

[Ravello]

Not sure about the printed copy of the pdf, but on my electronic version the figure for "income derived through services company" is populated (i.e. doesn't disappear).

As an aside, regarding the debate as to whether the box should be completed at all it would appear that SJD (my appointed tax advisors) have deemed it appropriate to do so.

[Lewis]

I did my return on-line early this year, mainly as I didn't want to pay the July 2nd payment (on account), as I was under by 50% based on last year.

I filled out the "Money Derived from a Service Company", as I guess it hardly matters really as it doesn't change what you pay. Anyway, I noticed on my "Print your PDF" as a copy, no matter what I filled out in the box it came out as "None" anyway.

Either it's a bug in the HMRC online software or they are ignoring it this year. (Whenever I went back to edit my SA it still had the figure I originally put in).

I thought it a bit strange - anyone else noticed this yet?

Somebody has posted the same on PCg forums, they say "I printed it off and rang the help desk who informed me that there was a known bug in the HTML printing function for the 'Service Company' question and that this was probably going to be fixed 'in a few weeks' and that the data was 'probably' present in the submitted form itself."

[rawly]

I did my return on-line early this year, mainly as I didn't want to pay the July 2nd payment (on account), as I was under by 50% based on last year.

I filled out the "Money Derived from a Service Company", as I guess it hardly matters really as it doesn't change what you pay. Anyway, I noticed on my "Print your PDF" as a copy, no matter what I filled out in the box it came out as "None" anyway.

Either it's a bug in the HMRC online software or they are ignoring it this year. (Whenever I went back to edit my SA it still had the figure I originally put in).

I thought it a bit strange - anyone else noticed this yet?

[Lewis]

More confusion (!) - I've heard of this CD, but never been sent one. I presume I have to call them and ask for it?

HMRC send the disc (+updates) automatically when you are registered for PAYE. Unless you have an agent registered with HMRC and in which case they maybe send it to them instead (not sure as I don't have an agent registered).

[Gros]

If you use the employers CD sent to you by those kind people at HMRC you can print your P60 at the same time as you submit your P35, P11D etc it gets the info from the P11 that you fill in every month (you can also do this from the CD)

You DO fill in the P11 for each employee/Director each month don't you?

More confusion (!) - I've heard of this CD, but never been sent one. I presume I have to call them and ask for it?

[Archangel]

If you use the employers CD sent to you by those kind people at HMRC you can print your P60 at the same time as you submit your P35, P11D etc it gets the info from the P11 that you fill in every month (you can also do this from the CD)

You DO fill in the P11 for each employee/Director each month don't you?

[Gros]

As you seem like a nice chap,

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/emp-form.htm

Thanks! I think I am a nice chap, though just a bit confused sometimes