Contracting in Brussels and tax

[Moscow Mule]

Hi Joe. Not heard from you in a while.

Good question, and one that is cropping up more often. Under EU law they have to recognise the UK Ltd. I found this out in a conversation with a German mate.
I can not seem to find out how to work on a contract in Germany (and this would apply mostly to Belgium too) using my UK Ltd though. Nobody in the food chain will explain because it will cut them out of the loop.

I have posted a couple of questions on here. I might have to go and ask the Dark Side (PCG) but their overseas advice is years out of date.

Is it worth using a UK agency in this instance?

Just as a buffer really.

I used that setup in Holland but I was only there for a couple of months so my footprint was negligible.

[The Lone Gunman]

Indeed.

"If the seat of control of your business is in Belgium then your company is and they dont recognise 1 man Ltds."

How could that be the case when they recognise their own one man companies. Slightly different taxes rules perhaps, but a one man Ltd all the same.

PS: regards to all and sundry, it's be a while...

Hi Joe. Not heard from you in a while.

Good question, and one that is cropping up more often. Under EU law they have to recognise the UK Ltd. I found this out in a conversation with a German mate.
I can not seem to find out how to work on a contract in Germany (and this would apply mostly to Belgium too) using my UK Ltd though. Nobody in the food chain will explain because it will cut them out of the loop.

I have posted a couple of questions on here. I might have to go and ask the Dark Side (PCG) but their overseas advice is years out of date.

[Joe Black]

It has also been nearly 12 months since I was last in Belgium so this may be out of date.

As ever I am not qualified to give this advice.

Indeed.

"If the seat of control of your business is in Belgium then your company is and they dont recognise 1 man Ltds."

How could that be the case when they recognise their own one man companies. Slightly different taxes rules perhaps, but a one man Ltd all the same.

PS: regards to all and sundry, it's be a while...

[The Lone Gunman]

These guys right?

http://www.pearl-systems.com/

Yes. I have used other "management" companies but I prefer these guys.
I have used JSA International and PSB (Project Services Beta) but both had problems for me. The problems were caused by local law and my needs, not by the company themselves, both provided good reliable srervices. It was some time ago mind. I was doing the income splitting deal with JSA when UK law changed which meant they could not release some of the money. PSB had to comply with a tax withholding rule.

Pearl are Denmark based and have no such issues. The staff who run the payroll office are great. They remind me when I have not sent a timesheet or an invoice and other useful stuff.

[gadgetman]

Thanks, very helpful.

It has also been nearly 12 months since I was last in Belgium so this may be out of date.

As ever I am not qualified to give this advice.

[ace00]

Pearl systems

These guys right?

http://www.pearl-systems.com/

[The Lone Gunman]

Does this stuff apply once you exceed 183 days or from the start?

Can you clarify what you mean about 'seat of control of your business'?

Seat of control is basically the board of directors, the people who make decisions about the business. As a one man company that would be you. Unless you can prove that your company is controlled without you by someone else, or possibly requires someone else too.

Depending on the above: Seat of control in Belgium, tax from day 1 in Belgium. Seat not in Belgium, 183 days before being taxed in Belgium. BUT if you go over 183 days they will tax you from day 1.

If you are sure your seat is not in Belgium (and some serious minds have yet to figure that one out for sure) and you are not going to go over 183 days then use your UK Ltd. Otherwise go with a management company.

The calculation for 183 days also changes regularly. I think it currently works based on nights resident, but you need to check that.
Not claiming a couple of weeks travel and hotel can extend your stay quite a bit if you are a risk taker.

It has also been nearly 12 months since I was last in Belgium so this may be out of date.

As ever I am not qualified to give this advice.

[gadgetman]

Does this stuff apply once you exceed 183 days or from the start?

Can you clarify what you mean about 'seat of control of your business'?

If the seat of control of your business is in Belgium then your company is and they dont recognise 1 man Ltds. Make sure your wife is a director and you have no access to your business while abroad. Might be hard to prove.
If they get you under Belgian tax then your companies earnings are regarded as your income and taxed at about 50%. They will also want a chunk of any divvies paid.

[The Lone Gunman]

Belgian tax man is a pain. He is very lazy most of the time and people get away with stuff for years, but if he decides to check on you then your are deep in it.
I think Belgian Hector can chase up the tree for unpaid tax so your agent may become liable but I would need proper legal advice here.
Get some proper advice from a specialist.
If you need a management company I recomend Pearl Systems. I am about to sign up with them for a German contract.

183 day rule. In Belgium it is actual days in Belgium. It used to be days since start of contract.
If the seat of control of your business is in Belgium then your company is and they dont recognise 1 man Ltds. Make sure your wife is a director and you have no access to your business while abroad. Might be hard to prove.
If they get you under Belgian tax then your companies earnings are regarded as your income and taxed at about 50%. They will also want a chunk of any divvies paid.

[Fred Bloggs]

Certainly does seem a nightmare. I am considering Germany, I love the place and fancy the experience. Would prefer that than the 1.5 hour commute to the smog every day, however I'd prefer not to take a gig with no hope of extension. ref 183 days rule.

More issues- I believe not all EU countries recognise the 183 day rule and other countries have different ways of actually counting 183 days. It's truly mad this so called "single market".

[Manic]

Certainly does seem a nightmare. I am considering Germany, I love the place and fancy the experience. Would prefer that than the 1.5 hour commute to the smog every day, however I'd prefer not to take a gig with no hope of extension. ref 183 days rule.

[Fred Bloggs]

My take on it is it's OK if it's Belgium or the dole queue then fine. Otherwise it's too much hassle/uncertainty. Trying to get definitive answers to taxation issues in the EU is like drawing teeth I find. So much for the "single market" eh?

[gadgetman]

It does, thanks.

[Sockpuppet]

http://www.contractoruk.com/overseas...lgium_tax.html

HTH

[gadgetman]

I have applied for a gig in Brussels and the agency are giving me a line about having to pay tax over there and being very keen that I operate through an umbrella.

They started talking about a monthly 'salary' and the remainder going to an offshore trust, at which point I became very sceptical about the whole thing.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't invoice as normal through my UK Ltd? They seems to think this would leave them exposed to potential tax liablities in Belgium at some point. Is this all ballcocks?