Reply to: Tricky situation at client with complaint between perms

[BrilloPad]

I know what people are saying, the argument to just walk away and say "I'm a contractor, I'm not involved" is an easy one, but like the person above said, it's probably not a deciding factor in IR35 that you went to help resolve a 'work issue'. If your input will make a difference and it is morally (and you feel this) the right thing to do, then you should consider doing it. Make an executive decision as the head of your company to help your client resolve an issue ;-)

In many ways I agree with what you say, but I have big problems finding anything moral at ClientCo. Or anything sane come to that.

[NickNick]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I have reached a decision.

And...??

[Cowboy Bob]

Of course the PM will understand. He will understand that he has on his team the type of person who looks the otherway when any type of trouble comes looking.

He may even appear to support your decision, but just wait a while. After the incident has been forgotten you will likely be terminated early. No one will mention the incident, but everyone will know the real reason.

You are a permie in disguise and I hereby claim my crisp £5...

[PorkPie]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I have reached a decision.

[chris79]

I know what people are saying, the argument to just walk away and say "I'm a contractor, I'm not involved" is an easy one, but like the person above said, it's probably not a deciding factor in IR35 that you went to help resolve a 'work issue'. If your input will make a difference and it is morally (and you feel this) the right thing to do, then you should consider doing it. Make an executive decision as the head of your company to help your client resolve an issue ;-)

[BrilloPad]

There is no obligation to get involved in the clients internal affairs, but if your input assists them in some way, then why not do it?

I find that ClientCo(this and previous) rarely brings facts into anything and any attempt to help is likely to result in blame and rcrimination - usually towards me.

I bet evertyone else's client is okay though...

[Pickle2]

Personally, I think your IR35 concerns are way overblown. If an IR35 investigation ever got to the stage that the IR were poking around in client email trails, meeting histories etc, I would say you would probably have more things to worry about than this! Gieven that you, im sure, have good insurance and a sound contract, dont stress it.

I think if the project manager is a good guy, and a pal, you should go along and say your piece in his defense. Draw the line at making any "official" statement maybe, be that in writting, or interviews as part of a formal disiplinary procedure, but I think refusing to go along to an initial meeting to discuss it would look very suss, and prob do the PMs case no good at all.

This kind of sh1t goes on, its part of working as part of a team within a big company. Ignoring IR35, this is the working reality. Go along to the initial meeting, and get a feel for where this whole thing might lead. You can always refuse to take part in anything further down the line if it after the first meeting you get the creeps. At least you will have stood up for the PM.

Put it this way, if Im PM and you refuse to help me out. You are out on your ear. End of.

[chris79]

Personally I would attend to give any supporting evidence, but make it clear that this is an INTERNAL issue and you are not an employee of the company so will only supply material evidence if questioned if they feel it will help resolve the matter.

There is no obligation to get involved in the clients internal affairs, but if your input assists them in some way, then why not do it?

[NotAllThere]

An alternative approach would be to "take out" the complainer. Then the pm will be your friend for life and the company have had a tricky problem solved. Sounds like win-win to me.

I think saying that you've never seen anything untoward, either verbally or through a letter, is reasonable. Along with a statement re: conflict of interest, and so "it would not be appropriate for me to be involved".

[Turion]

Don't get involved. Have a quiet, off-the-record chat with the permie PM if you want to maintain your good relationship.
HTH

Of course the PM will understand. He will understand that he has on his team the type of person who looks the otherway when any type of trouble comes looking.

He may even appear to support your decision, but just wait a while. After the incident has been forgotten you will likely be terminated early. No one will mention the incident, but everyone will know the real reason.

[ruskithebear]

Don't get involved. Have a quiet, off-the-record chat with the permie PM if you want to maintain your good relationship. If he's a reasonable man he will understand your position. If he doesn't then he's a noddy and you should go along to the meeting and hang him out to dry!
HTH

[Cheshire Cat]

Don't get involved. Have a quiet, off-the-record chat with the permie PM if you want to maintain your good relationship. If he's a reasonable man he will understand your position. If he doesn't then he's a c0ck and you should go along to the meeting and hang him out to dry!
HTH

[PorkPie]

Also how does this look Re IR 35 if it ever got out that I was involved?!

[PorkPie]

As you think the PM is doing a good job, you should say so. You do not have to take sides or apportion blame as you are just giving a character reference. You should also view this as a great opportunity.

If you try to avoid becoming involved and say nothing, it's a negative for your PM. A bit like a company that refuses to give a reference to a former employee. We all know what that means.

And one last thing. If I was your PM and you did not back me I'd make sure you were binned ASAP.

On the other hand, if you back the PM he will likely reward with extensions and rate rises.

All valid points. That's why its such a tricky situation.

[Turion]

As you think the PM is doing a good job, you should say so. You do not have to take sides or apportion blame as you are just giving a character reference. You should also view this as a great opportunity.

If you try to avoid becoming involved and say nothing, it's a negative for your PM. A bit like a company that refuses to give a reference to a former employee. We all know what that means.

And one last thing. If I was your PM and you did not back me I'd make sure you were binned ASAP.

On the other hand, if you back the PM he will likely reward with extensions and rate rises.