Reply to: Chartered vs common or garden accountants

[SueEllen]

After all, it is very very difficult now in many respects to know with 100% certainty what your tax status actually is when operating as a 1 man Ltd company.

Unfortunately nearly all UK legislation is open to interpretation so that is an impossible thing. For example the accountants who post on this board are in disagreement about what is the minimum wage you should pay yourself. (Have a look at the different leaflets they post on their websites.)

It's a case of finding someone you can trust not to land you in jail or with a massive fine.

[Fred Bloggs]

BTW if Fred Blogs is really unhappy then he should have walked away along time ago. There are lots of accountants out there and more of them seem to be advertising to take on contractors.

I might still do that, but I'm, not convinced from the background research I've done that another firm will be any better.

Point taken about having to ask for advice. However, I have personally seen a few less clued up contractors than myself get themselves into a heck of a mess because they didn't realise the onus was on them to do all the research about VAT, dividends, IR35, corporation tax, S660 etc... After all, it is very very difficult now in many respects to know with 100% certainty what your tax status actually is when operating as a 1 man Ltd company.

[SueEllen]

That's the situation I want to avoid.

You need to ask any accountant that you use what services does the fee cover.

Some firms make it clear that it covers doing certain bits of paperwork for you, answering some simple questions and providing you with one or two documents per year. Others don't make it clear therefore the onus is on you to ask them.

You can't expect a accountant who specialises in contractors and provides a service for a fixed monthly fee to give you lots of personalised tax advice for no additional cost as they are a business as well and may not be tax specialists.

Also some of my family and friends are accoutants and their training was done in small firms like these. They did have to take at least the basic exam before they could even get a job in the firm and if they didn't continue training they didn't get a pay rise.

BTW if Fred Blogs is really unhappy then he should have walked away along time ago. There are lots of accountants out there and more of them seem to be advertising to take on contractors.

[Fred Bloggs]

I'm surprised, Fred - IF that is your real name - that you've stuck with your firm for so long after that experience. I'd have bogged them off a long time ago.

I would if I found a realistically much better alternative. My gut feel is that if you want good 1 to 1 business advice then use a sole practitioner rather than one of the "contractor specialists" sausage machine practises. I stay with the status quo as 1- All the schemes I've looked at cost about the same in different ways. 2- I am pretty well clued up financially (I read a lot) and actually don't really mind doing the background research into tax breaks, VAT, pensions etc.. If I'd found a better option I'd have gone for it.

[ashleymoran]

The company I have used the last 5 years (who will remain nameless) bring nothing constructive to the business. Every topic I have spoken to them about I have had to go away and research for myself afterwards. I have wondered why I use an accountant at all. The answer I give myself is that I need someone to check my corp'n tax, VAT, income tax and NI calculations. Usually (on average) my figures and the accountants figures disagree about once per year. Every time it has been my figures that are right. I have looked at running my own accounts on packaged software and paying an accountant to carry out my final year accounts computations for me. By the time you've paid for the annual software upgrades and the accountants time to do that task, it works out about the same as paying an accountant monthly. Ofcourse, YMMV.

That's the situation I want to avoid. I've already bought some accounting software (MoneyWorks) and the publisher actually provides a free copy to your accountant if they want to use it. It cost me about £300 which is in the region of half a typical bill for the monthly deals I've seen, so it won't have to do much to pay for itself. I'd prefer to do as much of the donkey work myself and use an accountant as a source of business advice on things like tax and investments. I'm sure most decent accountants would prefer to spend their time doing that anyway.

I'm a bit wary - although I don't know if I have any reason to be - of choosing a large firm where I will be client number 3267, standard package B. I want someone that will add value to my business, because I've come to realise, while I can do my own book-keeping etc, there's no way I'm gonna be any good at both my own job AND an accountant's.

I'm surprised, Fred - IF that is your real name - that you've stuck with your firm for so long after that experience. I'd have bogged them off a long time ago.

[Fred Bloggs]

I think it's worth saying that it is a person who is a Chartered Accountant. The accounting company that you use is very likely to use clerical staff to deal with your day to day business not an accountant.

The company I have used the last 5 years (who will remain nameless) bring nothing constructive to the business. Every topic I have spoken to them about I have had to go away and research for myself afterwards. I have wondered why I use an accountant at all. The answer I give myself is that I need someone to check my corp'n tax, VAT, income tax and NI calculations. Usually (on average) my figures and the accountants figures disagree about once per year. Every time it has been my figures that are right. I have looked at running my own accounts on packaged software and paying an accountant to carry out my final year accounts computations for me. By the time you've paid for the annual software upgrades and the accountants time to do that task, it works out about the same as paying an accountant monthly. Ofcourse, YMMV.

[ashleymoran]

Send him an email and ask why.

I'm not that interested in the answer

[SueEllen]

In this case, why don't they advertise as being chartered?

Send him an email and ask why.

[ashleymoran]

Darren Upton belongs to the ACCA plus a few other bodies.

In this case, why don't they advertise as being chartered?

[SueEllen]

According to the PCG site, SJD is chartered. Nixon Williams and Upton do not claim to be chartered on their websites, but they are not PCG QA registered anyway.

Darren Upton belongs to the ACCA plus a few other bodies.

SJD team belong to various bodies - http://www.sjdaccountancy.com/about/.../our_team.html

[Nixon Williams]

Nixon Williams claim to be a "PCG affiliate", whatever that means.

Just to clarify:

I am a member of the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants (CIMA) and I am regulated by them, this includes checking that I have insurance, they I continue to keep updated, have procedures in place etc.

[ashleymoran]

Soory I just assumed NW and Upton were. I think Upton is in the process of applying, now you mention it.

Nixon Williams claim to be a "PCG affiliate", whatever that means.

[THEPUMA]

According to the PCG site, SJD is chartered. Nixon Williams and Upton do not claim to be chartered on their websites, but they are not PCG QA registered anyway.

Soory I just assumed NW and Upton were. I think Upton is in the process of applying, now you mention it.

SJD are chartered tax advisors but not chartered accountants, I believe.

[ashleymoran]

You're right it does say and. I'm glad I wrote OR in big capitals!

It means OR though. And they are 2 different things. I don't think any of the accountants regularly recommended on here (SJD, Nixon Williams and Upton) are Chartered Accountants.

According to the PCG site, SJD is chartered. Nixon Williams and Upton do not claim to be chartered on their websites, but they are not PCG QA registered anyway.

[THEPUMA]

I know a tax advisor is something different, but I thought "chartered and certified" accountants referred to one thing? (It definitely says "and", not "or".)

You're right it does say and. I'm glad I wrote OR in big capitals!

It means OR though. And they are 2 different things. I don't think any of the accountants regularly recommended on here (SJD, Nixon Williams and Upton) are Chartered Accountants.