Umbrella companies and opting in/out

[ItsCalledRex]

Yep, totally agree. The Agency regs are nothing to do with an umbrella since they are not a work seeker and an Umbrella user, who is legally their employee, is not in scope. So this debate is a bit theoretical, isn't it.

I am pretty new to all this, but doesn't the umbrella have to be seen as helping you look for new contracts, hense why your home is your permenant place of work and why you get expenses for that, sorry need to clear a few things up, been doing a lot of research this week

[darasd]

that's what i thought, but to quote parasol:

"When you registered with Parasol and signed our terms and conditions you did Opt Out, but if you now want to Opt In with us , we will need to see site of some documentation"

[malvolio]

Yep, totally agree. The Agency regs are nothing to do with an umbrella since they are not a work seeker and an Umbrella user, who is legally their employee, is not in scope. So this debate is a bit theoretical, isn't it.

[darasd]

The opt out that I was originally talking about was the Employment Agency one.

[tim123]

..well put!

Oviously I work for an umbrella company - as a business we opt out of the Employment Agency regulations.

YOU cannot do that, you are not a work seeker.

As far as opting out of the working time regs, we are unable to offer any of our contractors specific advice whether or not they opt out but obviously if they opt in, they are potentially restricting their hours of work and as their employer we would be obliged to obtain copies of qualifications, full work history etc....

Stating it again, doesn't explain why you have to take up references on someone who wants to opt in to the working time regs (or more correctly, doesn't want to opt out) (if that is what you are saying). And you don't have to take up references under the Conduct of Agency ..... regs because you are NOT the agency in the chain.

I know as a fact that at least in my company, we only state facts at the point the contractor registers with us - the decision is up to them.

IMHO, this is a fact made up by someone who hasn't read the legislation thoroughly. I still believe that work-seekers, working through brollies, cannot opt out of the Employment agency regs, because THEY are not a "work-seeker who is incorporated", and no jiggling of the terminology makes them so.

tim

[brollyman]

Good point

..well put!

Oviously I work for an umbrella company - as a business we opt out of the Employment Agency regulations.

As far as opting out of the working time regs, we are unable to offer any of our contractors specific advice whether or not they opt out but obviously if they opt in, they are potentially restricting their hours of work and as their employer we would be obliged to obtain copies of qualifications, full work history etc....

I know as a fact that at least in my company, we only state facts at the point the contractor registers with us - the decision is up to them.

[Ardesco]

Before I attempt to answer this question from the Umbrella perspective, can I clarify what "opt out" you are referring to?

Are we talking about opting out of the Working Time Regulations or the Employment Agency regulations.....

Thought it might help give a clear answer....

Good point, but I can't see why they would need to see qualifications if you are opting back into the working time directive....

[darasd]

employment agency regulations

[brollyman]

Stupid question time...

Before I attempt to answer this question from the Umbrella perspective, can I clarify what "opt out" you are referring to?

Are we talking about opting out of the Working Time Regulations or the Employment Agency regulations.....

Thought it might help give a clear answer....

[Ardesco]

Hello. I signed up with the an umbrella company - Parasol - a year ago. For my first contract, I was *encouraged* to opt out by the agency, which I did. Having read a bit more on the subject, I see no real advantages to be by opting out, so for my next contract I want to remain opted in.

My umbrella company are now saying that when I signed their terms and conditions, I opted out (which I don't remember), and therefore remain so (presumably, regardless of the client). Firstly, does one opt out with an umbrella company? I thought it only applied to the agencies. Secondly, they are also saying that in order to remain opted in, I must supply the umbrella company with various copies of qualifications. I this correct? Again, I thought this only appied to agencies.

To complicate matters, I have most definitely already been introduced to the client.

Thanks.

-D.

Unless you specifically opted out in the beginning before you met the client (for an interview for example) you are opted in by default. Once you have been introduced to the client you cannot legally opt out.

If you are opted out, you can opt back in at any time by notifying the agency in writing that you wish to remain opted in. You cannot be prevented from opting in, this would be against the law.

If you are opted in the agency that gets you the gig has to prove that you have the qualifications and experiance that you have listed on your CV, so they will need to check your qualification certificates to make sure they are real and they will need to talk to your references to ensure that you have done the work you have said you have done, etc. If you are opted in the agency can't have a handcuff clause so there is nothing to stop you going direct when your first extension comes up, also they have to pay you for the work you have done in a set time period no matter if you have signed timesheets or not. As a result agencies tend to find this a pain in the arse so they encourage people to opt out and generally speakign refuse to give you an IR35 compleint contract unlss you are opted out.

If you are using an umbrella and all of your pay is going through PAYE you are IR35 caught anyway so don't need an IR35 complient contract. It makes no sense to opt out of you are using an umbrella.

I have no idea what Parasol is talking about with regards to your opt in/opt out status, from my understanding it shouldn't affect them either way as they are just a payment vehicle. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what they say, if you have been introduced to the client you are legally opted in like it or not, they can bury thier head in the sand and pretend you aren't but it won't get them anywhere.

Time to switch umbrellas perhaps?

[darasd]

Ok, since nobody seems to know the answer to my question, then maybe you can tell me who to ask? It is obviously impossible to get impartial, accurate advice from agencies and umbrellas about this.

[darasd]

anyone?

[darasd]

Hello. I signed up with the an umbrella company - Parasol - a year ago. For my first contract, I was *encouraged* to opt out by the agency, which I did. Having read a bit more on the subject, I see no real advantages to be by opting out, so for my next contract I want to remain opted in.

My umbrella company are now saying that when I signed their terms and conditions, I opted out (which I don't remember), and therefore remain so (presumably, regardless of the client). Firstly, does one opt out with an umbrella company? I thought it only applied to the agencies. Secondly, they are also saying that in order to remain opted in, I must supply the umbrella company with various copies of qualifications. I this correct? Again, I thought this only appied to agencies.

To complicate matters, I have most definitely already been introduced to the client.

Thanks.

-D.