Reply to: permi vs contracting

[oracleslave]

Yep...all this disadvantages of being a contractor (no training, career development, etc) and none of the advantages (as a contractor - no/small office politics, you get to choose where when and what kind of work, etc).

There are some upsides IMO to contracting to a consultancy:

1) Getting work - as long as they keep getting in new work they keep you on.

2) Getting skills - often they don't have permies to cover off all the niche areas the salesman has promised the client so they throw a contractor at the problem giving you the opportunity to grow your own skill base.

3) Getting contacts - You basically get an idea of all the companies that use a particualr technology (i.e. a free look at the consultancies clients and prospects) as well as get to know all the players in a particular areas so in the future if you have networked properly you should be able to sell yourself back there without too much bother.

Having said that I agree it is not ideal long-term.

[Captain Kangaroo]

IT Consultancies always pay more than an identical role with an end client. Reasons for this include:-

1. Similar to contractors, the client will be paying the consultancy a lot of money for your services and will be expecting a similar level of intensity in your work rate. What will be worse, however, is that you'll have a manager ensuring that you keep up the work rate as well as a client keeping his beady eye on you.

2. You'll typically need to do long hours

3. You may be asked to work away from home

4. If the market for your skills disappears, you'll soon be got rid of.

In essence, working for an IT consultancy is a bit of a half way house between being a genuine permie and a contractor. I don't think there's much of a career in it.

Yep...all this disadvantages of being a contractor (no training, career development, etc) and none of the advantages (as a contractor - no/small office politics, you get to choose where when and what kind of work, etc).

[XLMonkey]

Rule of thumb salary/100 = daily rate

in my experience so far, I've found that the market rate for a contractor in a given role is pretty close to the full time salary divided by 100.

So, if you were looking to fill a role that would attract a full time salary of 80k, then the equivalent contracting rate is about 800/day.

Now, if you're getting 800/day, then your average annual turnover will be about 150-160k (allowing for downtime).

It's that differential that makes contracting (relatively) attractive.

[mace]

Accenture

Accenture were bombarding me last month with an Oracle DBA role, but it only paid £75k plus bonus and benefits, so I declined.

That and I'm not a DBA.

IT Consultancies always pay more than an identical role with an end client. Reasons for this include:-

1. Similar to contractors, the client will be paying the consultancy a lot of money for your services and will be expecting a similar level of intensity in your work rate. What will be worse, however, is that you'll have a manager ensuring that you keep up the work rate as well as a client keeping his beady eye on you.

2. You'll typically need to do long hours

3. You may be asked to work away from home

4. If the market for your skills disappears, you'll soon be got rid of.

In essence, working for an IT consultancy is a bit of a half way house between being a genuine permie and a contractor. I don't think there's much of a career in it.

[max]

you need to divide the salary by the average hours you put in a day.
reason why investment banks pay well is because on average you
your expected to work a lot more hours.

Been working for IBs for years...never been expected to work more than the normal hours. Unless I was paid hourly...then it was my pleasure!

[TheFaQQer]

On the plus side if you can get a front office role working on the trading desks then depending on the performance of the desk your bonus could be anywhere from 50%-200% of your salary.

It's probably in the range of 0% to 200% of salary.

If not, I'll go become a trader, sit there for a year posting here, and get a 50% bonus - fantastic!

[Bright Spark]

if permi job is with an investment bank then the pay can be 70-80k so effectively I am comparing contracting with a permi job in banking.
I think I have answered the question myself. If the permi job is in investment banking then its equivalent to contracting where it is tough to get a foothold as a contractor without prior experience.

you need to divide the salary by the average hours you put in a day.
reason why investment banks pay well is because on average you
your expected to work a lot more hours.

On the plus side if you can get a front office role working on the trading desks
then depending on the performance of the desk your bonus
could be anywhere from 50%-200% of your salary.

HTH

[TheFaQQer]

Sounds OK to me! Depends on the benefits, though. Nice, low mortgage, etc., or not bothered.

It's a Technical Architect role - if you're interested, I'll dig out the email from the trash, if you want.

[DBA_bloke]

Accenture were bombarding me last month with an Oracle DBA role, but it only paid £75k plus bonus and benefits, so I declined.

That and I'm not a DBA.

Sounds OK to me! Depends on the benefits, though. Nice, low mortgage, etc., or not bothered.

[TheFaQQer]

You are right, of course. But £80k permie is hard to get. If I were offered that, I'd weep with joy, and wave goodbye to contracting.

Accenture were bombarding me last month with an Oracle DBA role, but it only paid £75k plus bonus and benefits, so I declined.

That and I'm not a DBA.

[DBA_bloke]

You are right, of course. But £80k permie is hard to get. If I were offered that, I'd weep with joy, and wave goodbye to contracting.

[DaveB]

if permi job is with an investment bank then the pay can be 70-80k so effectively I am comparing contracting with a permi job in banking.
I think I have answered the question myself. If the permi job is in investment banking then its equivalent to contracting where it is tough to get a foothold as a contractor without prior experience.

But if you do get in as a contractor you will be earning a lot more that £80k.

[Andy2]

You've missed the fact that contractors get paid more than permies. If you can get £80k as a permie, I reckon you'd be on at least £500 per day as a contractor which would be around the £110k mark.

if permi job is with an investment bank then the pay can be 70-80k so effectively I am comparing contracting with a permi job in banking.
I think I have answered the question myself. If the permi job is in investment banking then its equivalent to contracting where it is tough to get a foothold as a contractor without prior experience.

[VectraMan]

If an employer gets you to work for £80K as a contractor compared to £80K as a permie, they're laughing as they've dumped the employer's NI liability onto you. To count the equivalent cost to the client*, your turnover will be £91K.

Which by my reckoning makes your numbers £66K vs.£56K.

*I know there's loads of other factors, but just to illustrate the point about take home pay.

[DaveB]

There are similar irritations in the contracting world e.g. being team led by a guy with much less experience than yourself, having to work harder than your permie colleague, being a scapegoat etc. I think the two cancel each other out.

Depends on the job I guess, but the fact that you wont have to put up with any of it for longer than your contract says you have to makes it easier. Contracting requires thicker skin than permiedom imo. If you have that and can shrug off the crap it makes it easier.