Reply to: NI refund

[NotAllThere]

Depending on the amount, take them to the small claims court. You paid for a service, and they didn't deliver. It might work. ( Though I get the impression you're going to do what I'd do - cut losses and stop worrying about it ).

[Lewis]

Is the company "closing" or "closed". Have HMRC actually made a refund payment to the company?

I ditched Giant when they were still IAS. Looks like not much has changed.

They say "closing" but that all bank accounts are now closed and so they cannot pay-in any NI refund cheques (they say they will not claim the refund and HMRC will not tell me if they have paid or not). But personally I think it is irrelevant if they get the money back or not. I paid for a service and as part of that service they had an obligation to correctly calculate NI, I think I should at least get some refund of the fees. They haven't even appologised for the error. Funnily enough I also used them as accountants back in the IAS days. I ditched them after a mistake, I assumed after a few years it would be safe to return. More fool me!

[NotAllThere]

Is the company "closing" or "closed". Have HMRC actually made a refund payment to the company?

I ditched Giant when they were still IAS. Looks like not much has changed.

[Lewis]

Well just to complete this thread. I have been told there is no way this money can be returned to me. Which is very annoying as the NI calculations were Giant's responsibility and they made the mistake not me.

They told me that because the particular Giant Ltd company I worked through (of which there were hundreds) is closing I cannot be paid anything from it, of course, I pointed out that Giant "as a whole" is still running and I would bet they could if they wanted refund some of the fees I paid them.

Well .... Lesson learnt. Never, never trust anyone to process your money first! I'm actually glad that the MSC legislation was introduced now, as it pushed me back to running my own Ltd co. again which has resulted in me getting a higher take home and dumping Giant in the process.

So, every cloud does have a silver lining

[Lewis]

If you know their name - get a recorded letter sent of which has to be signed for.

I'm going to write a letter to the director, Matthew Brown. Hopefully he can resolve this.

[Bluebird]

If you know their name - get a recorded letter sent of which has to be signed for.

[Lewis]

Well whenever I call the person I need to speak with is "on the phone". And they never call back :-(

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Giant

Well done Lewis, let us know how you get on....interesting one! Fingers crossed it gets distributed to shareholders!

[Lewis]

The parent company can remain dormant, it's likely to be acting as director for your own MSC therefore able to sign documents, etc and protect the main officers of the group. The holding company will also own the main Ordinary share(s) of the company enabling it to control all matters of company admin and the voting rights.

The funds would therefore be paid into the bank account of your own MSC, depending on the terms of your shares within the company, you may be able to request a copy of the company's full accounts being a shareholder.

Otherwise, bit of a problem as the Inland Revenue will only talk to officers of the company and/or anyone authorised by the officers.

I paid my £2 and got the report for my old MSC from Companies House. It has £2400 in cash according to last accounts, up to 5th April 2006, which is when they say it stopped trading. The directors report shows the main Ltd as the directors as you had anticipated. HMRC were kind enough to tell me they had sent a claim form to Giant, which they just need to sign and send back and they get the refund. So I suspect the money will be happily going into the MSC account. I phoned Giant back to query the company being closed. They said they would 'look into it and get back to me'.

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Giant

The parent company can remain dormant, it's likely to be acting as director for your own MSC therefore able to sign documents, etc and protect the main officers of the group. The holding company will also own the main Ordinary share(s) of the company enabling it to control all matters of company admin and the voting rights.

The funds would therefore be paid into the bank account of your own MSC, depending on the terms of your shares within the company, you may be able to request a copy of the company's full accounts being a shareholder.

Otherwise, bit of a problem as the Inland Revenue will only talk to officers of the company and/or anyone authorised by the officers.

[Lewis]

Hi Lewis, no problem. If there was a proposal to strike off it would show underneath the date of incorporation.

With regards to your own MSC, were you a director of the company? If so, you can contact the tax office directly and ask them if the refund has been made and get the details. If the tax office haven't issued it, they will be able to advise over the phone....maybe easier to talk to the tax office directly.

You can obtain the last annual return from the Companies House webcheck area which will show the list of director(s), co sec & shareholders. In theory, they can't take back the shares you hold without a signed share transfer form, unless there are provisions in the contract you have with Giant.

They may allow you to take the company, however I suspect they will charge you for the privilege!

It was a composite arrangement. Multiple contractors share same company with different share classes (something like that). I wasn't a director just employee and shareholder. So when they get the money it goes into the company account and they would have to declare a dividend to get it to me out of profits. But I guess they could argue they can't do that when the company is dormant. I'm not sure how the 100s of Giant Powerhouse (xxx) Ltd companies are related to the 1 Giant Powerhouse Ltd. I assume they are sub-companies in some way?? So would the parent company being dormant mean all child companies are also? On companies house they look like normal Ltds to me e.g. here is one taken at random.

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Companies House

Hi Lewis, no problem. If there was a proposal to strike off it would show underneath the date of incorporation.

With regards to your own MSC, were you a director of the company? If so, you can contact the tax office directly and ask them if the refund has been made and get the details. If the tax office haven't issued it, they will be able to advise over the phone....maybe easier to talk to the tax office directly.

You can obtain the last annual return from the Companies House webcheck area which will show the list of director(s), co sec & shareholders. In theory, they can't take back the shares you hold without a signed share transfer form, unless there are provisions in the contract you have with Giant.

They may allow you to take the company, however I suspect they will charge you for the privilege!

[Bluebird]

ooop, I though it was about Northern Ireland...

[Lewis]

Hi Lewis, a dormant company can't have any movements financially...the directors can sign documents on it's behalf such as annual returns, etc but no financial transactions.

If they've filed the 652a application to strike off, this would be shown on Companies House website. They maybe preparing the company for closure but not yet filed the 652a?

As for refunds from gov agencies, if it's struck off before this is issued, then it will stay with Coco the Clown....otherwise will be paid directly to the company.

Thanks Darren.

Details on companies house here. Is it here it would show the 652a? So if they have not struck off and they get the refund from HMRC (despite being dormant - although the actual company I worked through was Giant Powerhouse (XXX) Ltd which shows active not dormant) can they just give it to me (would it would have to be as a dividend as per their previous business model - the question is am I still a shareholder?).

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Dormant Co

Hi Lewis, a dormant company can't have any movements financially...the directors can sign documents on it's behalf such as annual returns, etc but no financial transactions.

If they've filed the 652a application to strike off, this would be shown on Companies House website. They maybe preparing the company for closure but not yet filed the 652a?

As for refunds from gov agencies, if it's struck off before this is issued, then it will stay with Coco the Clown....otherwise will be paid directly to the company.