Reply to: Corp Tax return. What else do I submit ?

[css_jay99]

I am using an accountant at the mo, but he does everything in painfull slow motion. I have been trying to get hold of him for last couple of days. thats what happens when you mix business with family. i have to admit I get more answers here

The entertainment costs are not allowable for corp tax purposes...

my fault, I meant subsistence(while away at client's) rather than Entertainment. surely this is allowable. Additionally I hope i dont need to fill out a P11D for my expenses considering they are fully/wholly for the purpose of work


css_jay99

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Accounts

Full accounts plus corp tax return plus corp tax computations to the tax office, then Abbreviated Accounts to Companies House.

The entertainment costs are not allowable for corp tax purposes....remember also to claim any capital allowances and disallow the depreciation.

Maybe it's worthwhile investing in an accountant? May save you a bit of time?

[css_jay99]

Does this mean that I can give companies house abbreviated accounts But give to the tax man Full accounts to save myself questions from the taxman?.

That way what i take out in dividends will not be obvious to whoever decides to get my accounts from Companies House.

Also
I have included into by P&L account an amount of £5000 as Direct expenses. This amount is made up of Travel, accommodation, milleage and entertainment(£30 )

Do I need to put and split this up the the Notes to account to stop the taxman pulling me up on it?


cheers

css_jay99

[ASB]

Any idea if there if a form of discrimination on their part when looking at abbreviated accounts in comparison to full accounts? .

It's easy to do both surely? The full set for your managements purposes and the abbreviated balance sheet for filinig.

Dug out an old set which also answers my earlier query. The abbreviated balance sheet only contains 2 notes. Cost and movement of fixed assets and called up captial. Thus the movement in shareholders funds has no visible reconciliation.

Edit: Thanks Darren. Crossed in the post so to speak.

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Accounts

Darren,

It's only curiosity. Is not even the summary P+L required for filing? Also, if it's not, surely the profit can be established by the implicit reconciliation of shareholder funds in the balance sheet ? [I guess the point here though would be that the overall cost of sales wouldn't appear which could be worth keeping out of the public domain]

also with a close company can shareholders opt out of the documents they are legally entitled to. [Again if you have few shareholders it probably doesn't matter but I seem to recall signing forms to return to quoted copmaines I hold shares in saying I don't want to receive the report]

ASB.....the summary P&L is only required for tax purposes. No need to disclose P&Lon small company abbreviated accounts. As for shareholders, quoted companies send the signed accounts to all once they've been done & dusted.

[xoggoth]

Hmmm yes, usually suggest DIY but in this case I do wonder why anyone who can submit their own CT forms would not also know what to submit. The capital allowances and CT calcs are quite complex and the form and guidance is not exactly user friendly.

[css_jay99]

I am thinking of getting a but-to-let mortgage sometime next year. As you know lenders do tend to only look be slightly easier on contractors with filed company accounts.

Any idea if there if a form of discrimination on their part when looking at abbreviated accounts in comparison to full accounts? .

The only other person which could be looking at my accounts is the Ex, so in her case an abbreviated accounts will be a good thing

Yes, but what I was getting at is that bottom line of the balance sheet is the shareholders funds. The accompanying note provides a reconciliation in the form of:- ...

Can anyone confirm ASB's query which kinda implies that the info is still available


css_jay99

[ASB]

Balance sheet only shows the net value of the P&L.

So, if you have £100k profits and distribute £90k via dividends during the year, its only the remaining £10k that shows up in the P&L and shareholder funds.

However, if you retain money in the company and don't distribute it all as dividends, then it will build up in the shareholder funds and will be 'visible'.

Yes, but what I was getting at is that bottom line of the balance sheet is the shareholders funds. The accompanying note provides a reconciliation in the form of:-

Profit for year
Dividends
Opening shareholders funds
Closing shareholders fund

I thought that was a requirement for a submitted balance sheet (but might not be), thus even if no P+L is submitted the bottom line from it is implicitly.

[minstrel]

Also, if it's not, surely the profit can be established by the implicit reconciliation of shareholder funds in the balance sheet ?

Balance sheet only shows the net value of the P&L.

So, if you have £100k profits and distribute £90k via dividends during the year, its only the remaining £10k that shows up in the P&L and shareholder funds.

However, if you retain money in the company and don't distribute it all as dividends, then it will build up in the shareholder funds and will be 'visible'.

[ASB]

Abbreviated accounts only at Companies House however they will accept full accounts....however if you file full accounts, the rest of the world will be able to see how much profit you make!

A set of full accounts with Corp Tax return and computations at the Inland Revenue.....also shareholders should receive a copy of the full accounts.

Darren,

It's only curiosity. Is not even the summary P+L required for filing? Also, if it's not, surely the profit can be established by the implicit reconciliation of shareholder funds in the balance sheet ? [I guess the point here though would be that the overall cost of sales wouldn't appear which could be worth keeping out of the public domain]

also with a close company can shareholders opt out of the documents they are legally entitled to. [Again if you have few shareholders it probably doesn't matter but I seem to recall signing forms to return to quoted copmaines I hold shares in saying I don't want to receive the report]

[ASB]

I presume after the balance sheet figures you mean the exact text below....

i presume where I had something like "Opearting expenses" in my P&L to be broken down into travel, accomodation, transport and entertainment...

css_jay99

That set of statements looks about right. I think though there might be something else as well.

For the P+L I'm not sure of the breakdown required. I rather suspect it depends on the individual case.

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Accounts

As ABS says, the detailed P&L doesn't form part of the statutory accounts.......if submitting abbreviated, no P&L.

The Inland Rev do like to see the detailed P&L when submitting their accounts.

[css_jay99]

Balance Sheet (Don't forget the directors statements required by section 249B(4))
Notes

I presume after the balance sheet figures you mean the exact text below

If the company qualifies (see question 2 and 3), unaudited accounts may be delivered to the Registrar in the form of an abbreviated balance sheet and notes. The balance sheet must contain the following statements above the director's signature:

(a) For the year ended . . . 31/12/2006 the company was entitled to exemption under section 249A(1) of the Companies Act 1985.

(b) Members have not required the company to obtain an audit in accordance with section 249B(2) of the Companies Act 1985;

(c) The directors acknowledge their responsibility for:

i. ensuring the company keeps accounting records which comply with section 221; and

ii. preparing accounts which give a true and fair view of the state of affairs of the company as at the end of the financial year, and of its profit or loss for the financial year, in accordance with the requirements of section 226, and which otherwise comply with the requirements of the Companies Act relating to accounts, so far as applicable to the company.

(d) The accounts have been prepared in accordance with the special provisions in Part VII of the Companies Act 1985 relating to small companies.

Often a detailed P+L - which is not part of the statutory accounts.

i presume where I had something like "Opearting expenses" in my P&L to be broken down into travel, accomodation, transport and entertainment...



css_jay99

[ASB]

Abbreviated accounts only at Companies House however they will accept full accounts....however if you file full accounts, the rest of the world will be able to see how much profit you make!

A set of full accounts with Corp Tax return and computations at the Inland Revenue.....also shareholders should receive a copy of the full accounts.

Doesn't this all just show why professionals are probably worth the cost and should be the preferred route for anybody non qualified (self included of course).

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Also I think you need to file full accounts with Co. House. I've always had both anyway.

Abbreviated accounts only at Companies House however they will accept full accounts....however if you file full accounts, the rest of the world will be able to see how much profit you make!

A set of full accounts with Corp Tax return and computations at the Inland Revenue.....also shareholders should receive a copy of the full accounts.