Reply to: Forced!!! into a GIANT leap of faith

[Lewis]

II'm supposed to be on client work at the moment!

No worries. Thanks for the help.

[Lewis]

Abbey and QDOS will only take on contracts that are likely to pass the IR35 tests. Since both are pretty good as assessing such things, you are insuring for something that has a vanishingly small chance of happening.

Good point.

[zathras]

Do you have to pay extra for Survive35 once your contract has passed or is that included in the £220? If it's extra what's the price?

To explain ... I'm trying to make a cost comparision between PCG vs QDOS who offer full IR35 cover for £325+VAT and club membership for £35+VAT which gives you three free contract reviews per year. So that's complete protection for £360+VAT.

I would help you further but I'm supposed to be on client work at the moment!

If you give Abbey Tax a call on 0870 607 7000 they should be able to help.

Personally I would not worry about the Tax due if found within the rules once it has been reviewed. With a success rate of over 99% the risk does not merit the costs of the insurance!

[malvolio]

No it's not included, you need Abbey's additional cover at somewhere between £200 and £300 for members depending basically on contract value

Also, and more to the point, both Abbey and QDOS will only take on contracts that are likely to pass the IR35 tests. Since both are pretty good as assessing such things, you are insuring for something that has a vanishingly small chance of happening. You don't escape IR35 by taking out insurance and keeping your fingers crossed, you do it by following the guidelines - so standard PCG-type cover and contract reviews (which you would have to do anyway) is a better use of your money.

[Lewis]

If they pass the contract then it will qualify for Survive35 Tax-Safe Insurance from Abbey Tax Protection covering additional IR35 tax, NIC's, interest and penalties!

Do you have to pay extra for Survive35 once your contract has passed or is that included in the £220? If it's extra what's the price?

To explain ... I'm trying to make a cost comparision between PCG vs QDOS who offer full IR35 cover for £325+VAT and club membership for £35+VAT which gives you three free contract reviews per year. So that's complete protection for £360+VAT.

[zathras]

IR35 cover is part of the membership, FFS, so it's either £120 or £210 if you take the sensible option of PCGPlus. That's it. Insurance is not dependent on you getting things reviewed, hence no costs there (although most people think an informed review through someone like B&C is a good investment for around £200 including any necessary renegotiation, espeically set against the £20k-ish value of the average three month contract).

Part of the point of PCG membership is to gain enough wit and awareness to make your own assessments anyway, as Zathras has just demonstrated.

Part of this question however is over the tax due if one of the <1% found within IR35. The insurances available with PCG and PCG+ membership do not pay any tax due. They pay for the costs of representing you during an investigation, but if you are found in you will have to pay the tax due

No insurance is going to offer to pay tax owed without checking the contracts first.

The following information is contingent upon you being a member of the PCG.

Lawspeed whose contract reviews start at £85+VAT for PCG members. If they pass the contract then it will qualify for Survive35 Tax-Safe Insurance from Abbey Tax Protection covering additional IR35 tax, NIC's, interest and penalties! - However to the best of my knowledge nobody has been penalised by HMRC for not paying IR35 taxes.

If you are a PCG member then this link will explain it all (you need to be a member to see that content)

[malvolio]

I've asked the folks in PCG Towers to point me in the direction of that information. When they get back to me I'll post it here. To be honest with the chances of being found inside being somewhat south of 1% I've not really worried. In my area contracts tend to be short, and all have had sub clauses and/or No MOO clauses.

IR35 cover is part of the membership, FFS, so it's either £120 or £210 if you take the sensible option of PCGPlus. That's it. Insurance is not dependent on you getting things reviewed, hence no costs there (although most people think an informed review through someone like B&C is a good investment for around £200 including any necessary renegotiation, espeically set against the £20k-ish value of the average three month contract).

Part of the point of PCG membership is to gain enough wit and awareness to make your own assessments anyway, as Zathras has just demonstrated.

[zathras]

Sorry, I stand corrected, been a while since I looked at PCG site. So out of interest how much does it come to via PCG for full cover against IR35 including legal fees, back tax, interest, penalties and the cost of any required contract reviews? I can see PGC+ is £220 can't see the cost of contract reviews anywhere.

I've asked the folks in PCG Towers to point me in the direction of that information. When they get back to me I'll post it here. To be honest with the chances of being found inside being somewhat south of 1% I've not really worried. In my area contracts tend to be short, and all have had sub clauses and/or No MOO clauses.

[zathras]

PCG ONESTOP SERVICE is well expensive over 170 quid a month??? plus 85 quid for formation of company are you kidding me!

That is the 'Gold' version of the service. The basic version is £205 - which is PCG membership and £85 for the company formation.

Why not get a good accountant forms company for free pay 70 quid too all insurances will cost average of 30 to 50quid and your making a saving of over 60 quid a month.

No such thing as a free lunch. It might be 'free' upfront but I'll bet the fee is then spread over the fees you pay during the year.

As for the insurances - check the small print!

[AZZIK]

PCG ONESTOP SERVICE is well expensive over 170 quid a month??? plus 85 quid for formation of company are you kidding me!

Why not get a good accountant forms company for free pay 70 quid too all insurances will cost average of 30 to 50quid and your making a saving of over 60 quid a month.

[Lewis]

Err... No.

The PCG Insurance has not been through QDOS for some time. The QDOS scheme is IIRC based on you paying for a review to ensure the contracts are outside IR35, then and only then will they pay out in the event of a loss.

Sorry, I stand corrected, been a while since I looked at PCG site. So out of interest how much does it come to via PCG for full cover against IR35 including legal fees, back tax, interest, penalties and the cost of any required contract reviews? I can see PGC+ is £220 can't see the cost of contract reviews anywhere.

[zathras]

[QUOTE=LewisI think the PCG insurance is through QDOS, for a bit more you can get cover direct from QDOS which is more comprehensive than PCG+ in that it also pays out all back tax, interest and penalties in the event QDOS lose. Whereas PCG+ only pays the penalties.[/QUOTE]

Err... No.

The PCG Insurance has not been through QDOS for some time. The QDOS scheme is IIRC based on you paying for a review to ensure the contracts are outside IR35, then and only then will they pay out in the event of a loss.

[Bluebird]

It amazes me that the amount of people who come on here and ask advice - these are normally weel paid folk who have an element of common sense and decision making involved in their roles however they can't make a decision as to how to go about getting money paid to them based on a set of rules & regulations.

[zathras]

You may also find the PCG Onestop Service useful.

PCG OneStop is a new type of membership which enables you to set up a limited company in one easy move with the resources to make sure everything complies with the law and the tax authorities. PCG OneStop saves you time, money and hassle.

[Lewis]

[QUOTE=zathras]PCG membership includes insurance with the fee and it kicks in when the Inspector says you are caught. With PCG+ you need never deal with the inspector as the insurance kicks in when they start a PAYE investigation[QUOTE]

I think the PCG insurance is through QDOS, for a bit more you can get cover direct from QDOS which is more comprehensive than PCG+ in that it also pays out all back tax, interest and penalties in the event QDOS lose. Whereas PCG+ only pays the penalties.