Reply to: Paying for insurance

[Ivor1]

Just looked PI £200 PL £112 The best I have found is hiscox at about £280 combined.

I got my PI and PL through Hiscoxs and then joined up the PCG as a basic member. Overall it worked out cheaper then getting everything through the PCG. For me it was something to do with the level of PI insurance I needed being high.

[gingerjedi]

Being a member of PCG I tried Randell Dorling for my PL insurance (with supposed PCG discount). came out at 350 odd quid.

then I tried caunce ohara. good website and cheap. 211 quid i think it was.

Just looked PI £200 PL £112 The best I have found is hiscox at about £280 combined.

[Jammy Dodger]

I need to get professional indemnity and Public liability insurance ASAP in order to get my contract raised the trouble is there is no money in my business account as I haven’t used it yet, how can I claim this as a business expense if I have to pay for it personally from my current account? Or is it even a claimable expense?

Also where can I find the cheapest quote? I begrudge paying the same as a developer/programmer as doing support work has nowhere near as much financial risk IMO.

Being a member of PCG I tried Randell Dorling for my PL insurance (with supposed PCG discount). came out at 350 odd quid.

then I tried caunce ohara. good website and cheap. 211 quid i think it was.

[gingerjedi]

As for contract compliance re: IR35 I ran it past my accountant and they said it was fine. Paranoia can drive you mad worrying about this sort of stuff (just look at Denny ) but I'm happy they'd have a hell of a fight to prove anything otherwise, and it feels good to have the PCG on your side instead of being on your own.

I have the IR35 paranoia big time! But I wouldn't go on what you accountant says, they will not be the ones who get investigated and only do what you tell them whether it be inside or outside IR35, my accountant just advised that I get it checked out by qdos but will accept no responsibility if I fall foul.

[GreenerGrass]

You read it wrong. PCG membership is £120, PCGPlus is £210 and you get a list of extras thrown in including full tax investigation insurance and jury service cover. PI/PLI/ELI is not a bundled product, but you get a discount from the insurers. Full details start at http://www.pcg.org.uk/cms/index.php?...646&Itemid=302 and the extras for PCGPlus at http://www.pcg.org.uk/cms/index.php?...647&Itemid=303 - the key bit being the addition of PAYE Audit cover, standard only covers IR35 investigations.

Anyway PCG is not an insurance company. You should join anyway! The more members, the louder their voice. And if you don't think that's important, go read the budget again and imagine what might have been...

I've just signed up to PCG Plus, I was a member a few years ago but lapsed when I was forced to go permie. I echo Malvolio's thoughts on why you should join. I got my professional indemnity through one of the the companies they mention online.
Has anyone else's agency asked for evidence of company reg details and PI lately?
They seem to be trying to cover their arse and making sure no one on their books is still going through an MSC, so they are not liable for any tax-recovery at a later date.

As for contract compliance re: IR35 I ran it past my accountant and they said it was fine. Paranoia can drive you mad worrying about this sort of stuff (just look at Denny ) but I'm happy they'd have a hell of a fight to prove anything otherwise, and it feels good to have the PCG on your side instead of being on your own.

[rawly]

Just make sure you are comparing like-for-like and remember that PCG cover is unconditional - no reviews or owt, you are covered for all contracts providing only that you are not already in an IR35 investigation..

How does this work in practice though? Do they requie you to issue one of their standard IR35 templates in order to get the cover? If my agency issues a contract, will they still look over it for free to check it, and make recommendations? Do they cover you for the full 7 years after a contract has ended? Or do you have to subscribe continually to get cover for the 7 year period the IR can investigate you in after the end of a contract?

[malvolio]

but PCG will not pay any penalties etc only the legal fees correct???
and qdos for 325 will pay all penalties and fines.

Red Herring. There will be no fines if you have attempted to establish your IR35 status. With a ratio of 3 losses to 2000 wins, the chances of losing are pretty slim (and the 3 losses were 4 years ago now). The QDOS deal won't take you unless there is a fairly positive chance you are not caught, so the odds of fines and penalties are even better (and ISTR you have to get them to check every contract?)

So why insure against something that isn't going to happen?

[AZZIK]

but PCG will not pay any penalties etc only the legal fees correct???
and qdos for 325 will pay all penalties and fines.

[malvolio]

OK - would you recommend this over the QDOS full IR35 insurance cover which is £320 a year? I was considering getting the QDOS, but the PCG appears more wide ranging. Would you agree?

Yes (but I am biased, of course). Just make sure you are comparing like-for-like and remember that PCG cover is unconditional - no reviews or owt, you are covered for all contracts providing only that you are not already in an IR35 investigation..

[AZZIK]

I have been looking at insurance and have decided to go with this company much cheaper than others I have seen. You can get IR35 insurance for 99 quid from qdos who give u access to theire freelancer club which allows 3 contract reviews per year but if you want extra information on ways to make ur contract IR35 friendly I think they charge extra.
http://www.trafalgar.uk.com/

[rawly]

You read it wrong. PCG membership is £120, PCGPlus is £210 and you get a list of extras thrown in including full tax investigation insurance and jury service cover.

OK - would you recommend this over the QDOS full IR35 insurance cover which is £320 a year? I was considering getting the QDOS, but the PCG appears more wide ranging. Would you agree?

[malvolio]

It only offers PI & PL at preferential rates on top of the membership linky as far as I can see? Its worth it for IR35 cover but do they charge on top of that for a contract review?

Like I just said, PCG is not an insurance company. They do get big discounts on a lot of things, including contract reviews.

Put it this way - the package benefits of PCG Plus and the discounts you can get would cost around £2.5k on the open market if sourced separately.

[malvolio]

Doesn't the £120 package give the same IR35 benefits a their PLUS package mentioned above? The extra price for the plus benefits didn't seem that useful to me, or have I read it wrong. It only seemed to add PAYE audit and Jury service cover.

You read it wrong. PCG membership is £120, PCGPlus is £210 and you get a list of extras thrown in including full tax investigation insurance and jury service cover. PI/PLI/ELI is not a bundled product, but you get a discount from the insurers. Full details start at http://www.pcg.org.uk/cms/index.php?...646&Itemid=302 and the extras for PCGPlus at http://www.pcg.org.uk/cms/index.php?...647&Itemid=303 - the key bit being the addition of PAYE Audit cover, standard only covers IR35 investigations.

Anyway PCG is not an insurance company. You should join anyway! The more members, the louder their voice. And if you don't think that's important, go read the budget again and imagine what might have been...

[gingerjedi]

£210 for the usual level of cover for the average freelance. Includes PI,PLI and ELI. Equipment insurance extra, should you want it. Add of course the £250 for joining PCG (which brings another £1000's worth of extra benefits) which you should be doing anyway... (hint, hint)

It only offers PI & PL at preferential rates on top of the membership linky as far as I can see? Its worth it for IR35 cover but do they charge on top of that for a contract review?

[rawly]

£210 for the usual level of cover for the average freelance. Includes PI,PLI and ELI. Equipment insurance extra, should you want it. Add of course the £250 for joining PCG (which brings another £1000's worth of extra benefits) which you should be doing anyway... (hint, hint)

Doesn't the £120 package give the same IR35 benefits a their PLUS package mentioned above? The extra price for the plus benefits didn't seem that useful to me, or have I read it wrong. It only seemed to add PAYE audit and Jury service cover.