Reply to: Support people outside of IR35

[Maxamus]

i think IR35 is blown out of proportion. I think people need to calm down.

Im a one man ltd company. Im a highways engineer, not an account or legal person. I have a descent account to sort out my tax affairs.

My main aim is to make money for myself and lots of it. And to be honest thats why most of the people in this forum do it. Yes i said it!

I do enough to make it outside of IR35 using common sense that the lord bestowed upon me. Some of this is shown by using my own personal protective equipment, my own phone, working from home, working the hours i want, taking lunch breaks when i wantand not at a set frequency like the permies, using my own vehicle and not pool cars, not being supervised....etc etc

All it takes is a little bit of commonsense. The Gov can go FOOOk themselves if they think they are taking money from me!

[gingerjedi]

In Business On My Own Account.

And the rest is just willy waving...

Too true, it pisses me off when people get on their high horse and go on about how they are a proper business and not just a vehicle to get paid, I would love to grow my business and branch out on a plans 'b' & 'c' or whatever but I have to start somewhere ffs!

I'm starting to think IR35 is just a state of mind and the more you do physically and mentally to prepare for any challenge the better you will be prepared to deal with it.

[cojak]

In Business On My Own Account.

And the rest is just willy waving...

[Robwg]

Scaremongering?

You'll only find that amongst disguised Giant employees around here m'boy...

Welcome to the IBOMOA club!

You are joking aren't you? 90% of the talk on here is between one person trieing to prove how much more knowledgable he/she is about IR35 than another and simulataneously trying to tulip that person up

[Bluebird]

" IBOMOA "

[cojak]

Scaremongering?

You'll only find that amongst disguised Giant employees around here m'boy...

Welcome to the IBOMOA club!

[Robwg]

thing is the bigger outsourcing firms will fill those roles with a permanent member of staff so IR35 is not an issue -

are you targetted or monitored on the amount of calls you take?

But will those permanent members of staff act like employees at the client site? In most cases no - they are employees of the consultancy and act like it. I obey the same rules. If the client isn't happy with the service they are getting they can terminate the contract - and the same goes for my firm.

I have SLA's - yes - although in my case they are all verbal - so I should get them contracted down and tightened up a bit.

This is only my current contract anyway - most of them are more 'project deliverable' style. I am quite confident that I am outside of IR35 - despite the scaremongering that goes on on this message board :-)

[Robwg]

This is what I'm doing. My business does more than IT contracting, I'm doing bits of internet marketing weekend and evening work for other 'clients'. Not a lot but I'm not a disguised employee by any means even if I am at the same client during normal business hours of the week.

Cue tedious 'discussion' about how IR35 is based on contract etc. from the normal forum bores

[Jog On]

Also - get the business paraphenalia - website, domain email address, business cards, advertise - that sort of thing. A small investment which all points in your favour (and may actually bring in business).

This is what I'm doing. My business does more than IT contracting, I'm doing bits of internet marketing weekend and evening work for other 'clients'. Not a lot but I'm not a disguised employee by any means even if I am at the same client during normal business hours of the week.

[gingerjedi]

Your maths is suspect.

How can you be on half the money and be better off.

tim

When I used an online IR35 calculator It worked out that I would only take 50% home, like I said take off pension, bench time, sick, holiday etc and that is how it worked out, I have since rang my accountant and he says I would take about 67% if caught and 79% if not, so not as bad and I guess the calculator was using worst case scenario.

[tim123]

An obvious point - you could say that about virtually every contractor though - there are always bigger firms that offer the same services as the smaller ones - but they charge the client even more (I would be charged out at double my daily rate if I still worked at Cap).

Personally - I think eventually IR35 (or its successors) will be taken to the European courts and blown out of the water.

The people with that view were shown to be wrong by the JR.

There is no route to challenge IR35 in Europe, that was attempted and given up as a lost cause. It cannot now be repeated.

tim

[tim123]

I know I know it’s just if I had to declare myself inside it just isn't worth it, take out the extra tax, holiday, sickness, bench time and I might as well take a permie job on half the money and be no worse off!

.

Your maths is suspect.

How can you be on half the money and be better off.

tim

[jh0711]

I think basically if I was subjected to an investigation I would argue (as well as the above) that plenty of bigger firms offer outsourcing services - so why should smaller one man firms. I agree it could be seen as dodgy as support contracts are by their nature not the type where you have a chunk of work you are delivering - but you'll win any argument as long as you remember you are not an employee and don't act like one, and that your 'deliverable' is to provide support - not a project etc.

thing is the bigger outsourcing firms will fill those roles with a permanent member of staff so IR35 is not an issue -

are you targetted or monitored on the amount of calls you take?

[Robwg]

I think the difference being that the consultancies mentioned are not one man ltd companies, and the directors are not themselves carrying out the work.

An obvious point - you could say that about virtually every contractor though - there are always bigger firms that offer the same services as the smaller ones - but they charge the client even more (I would be charged out at double my daily rate if I still worked at Cap).

Personally - I think eventually IR35 (or its successors) will be taken to the European courts and blown out of the water.

Thanks for the advice, its just that so many people are so unperturbed about IR35 and don't worry about it at all, I guess these are the ones who will come unstuck should they be investigated, I plan to get PCG insurance and get my contract checked out ASAP.

I also like your point about EDS, Accenture etc offering these services so why shouldn't you.

Just remember you are a limited and not a temp - and you will be alright.

Also - get the business paraphenalia - website, domain email address, business cards, advertise - that sort of thing. A small investment which all points in your favour (and may actually bring in business).

[Bluebird]

Thanks for the advice, its just that so many people are so unperturbed about IR35 and don't worry about it at all, I guess these are the ones who will come unstuck should they be investigated, I plan to get PCG insurance and get my contract checked out ASAP.

I also like your point about EDS, Accenture etc offering these services so why shouldn't you.

I think the difference being that the consultancies mentioned are not one man ltd companies, and the directors are not themselves carrying out the work.