New Client - Question - Risk of Retro Inspection

[BR14]

No-one can truly quantify the risk.

Stop whining and make your own minds up instead of second guessing every flight of fancy you can come up with.

good luck with that.
every other thread ffs.

[ladymuck]

No-one can truly quantify the risk.

Do you trust HMRC? Do you trust your client? Do you even trust yourself?

The answer to the last one seems to be zero for a lot of people as they feel they have to turn to a bunch of anonymous people on the internet rather than decide for themselves what level of risk they are prepared to take both personally and professionally.

I don't trust HMRC and whilst I like my client I know they will look after themselves and would throw me under a bus if it came to it. I trust my own judgement as it's kept my business running for the past 15 years.

I am not comfortable with the level of risk of working outside, self-determined, and swapping to inside, client determined, doing the same work for the same client. Therefore, when my client finally makes their mind up, I have a clear path ahead of me (albeit a potentially bumpy one) and I will take the consequences as they present themselves.

Stop whining and make your own minds up instead of second guessing every flight of fancy you can come up with.

[northernladuk]

/thread

[N00b101]

Hey Mate,

Yeah - I was also thinking this. Glad to think you have similar logic....

P.S - im in the process of MVLing anyway, so hopefully HMRC can shrug their shoulders and move on to an easier target.

[jamesbrown]

Still a small risk. Not zero, if you’re literally doing the same thing in the same way, but small, given the gap and duration. You are not going to be a high priority. It’s not like a move from outside to inside consecutively at the same client/agent where all the dots are aligned to shaft you.

[N00b101]

Hi Northern,

No, I worked for Client B 5 years ago under a PSC for 4 months. I may now be returning to them (If i accept the gig) under an Umbrella. Client B has changed their name following some merger since I last worked for them, so legally speaking the old entity no longer exists.

I will be doing the exact same role/job title, which can easily be filled by a permie. Still minimal risk you reckon?

[northernladuk]

Only one person has said anything different!

Well yeah but they've all been fairly wooly answers around the situation which appears to me to pretty straight forward. 5 years, via umbrella? Just get on with it.

[Amanensia]

I have to say I think people are being a bit overly cautious in this one. 5 year gap, different role, via umbrella and so on? I can't think for one minute there is any risk here at all.

Only one person has said anything different!

[northernladuk]

I have to say I think people are being a bit overly cautious in this one. 5 year gap, different role, via umbrella and so on? I can't think for one minute there is any risk here at all.

[jamesbrown]

So would you class that as a new role?

Probably. To be at any material risk here, I think you’d need to be slipping back into exactly the same role and doing it in the same way. Even then, the risk is hardly enormous on a four month contract.

[Amanensia]

Any answer to this can only be an opinion, and worth as much as you are paying for it, but my view would be that there is almost no risk here. HMRC would need to be remarkably sure of themselves to try to go back multiple years for a four month gig. I wouldn't worry about this for a moment.

[PTP]

No material risk. It isn’t primarily about the client but the role and working practices, which have presumably changed. To be extra careful, make sure they are different.

Working Practices: Easy to tell what makes a difference in working practices e.g. having to go through appraisals in perm job

Role: Would you class this as a change in role?
Contract: The role/project was in Department(123). It all came down to using Skills A+B and Qualification Z
Perm: The role is in Department(456). It all comes down to using the same skills and qualifications (A+B, Z)

i.e A permie could fairly easily be moved from Department(123) to Department(456) (or vice versa) and pick up the new role fairly quickly, even though the "jobs" would sound very different in their descriptions (until you get to the key skills section)

So would you class that as a new role?

[N00b101]

Hi James,

I imagine the working practices to be the same and it is the same job title. The only thing is Client B back in 2015 was a different company, which has now been dissolved on companies house.

Client B merged with another company to form a new name last year, where they have now set up a new LTD company. Considering this information in mind, would you say Client B no longer exists and that I am indeed now technically working for a new company?

Regards,

N00b101

[jamesbrown]

No material risk. It isn’t primarily about the client but the role and working practices, which have presumably changed. To be extra careful, make sure they are different.

[N00b101]

Hello All,

Been viewing a lot of threads since 4 months ago and have defo learned a lot, thank you for your knowledge. I have a very specific question though.

I used to work for Client A between Jan2014 to Dec2014 via an agency who would then pay my PSC. Client A decided to outsource their entire specific department to Client B in Jan2015. The same agency drew up new contracts and contractors initially working for Client A now were working for Client B. I spent 4 months working there and decided to leave in Apr2014.

Since then, ive worked for a number of other clients via a PSC until now. Client B have approached me for a contract to start in Mar20 but I will be doing this via a Brolly.

So my question is, although I have not gone from LTD > Brolly with Client B in a continuous fashion. There is a gap of almost 5 years and I could argue that I did not forsee Client A ever outsourcing to Client B back in 2014, which is why I left. Do you think there is a high risk of retro inspection if I were to work for Client B this year via a Brolly? Ive had a look at the contract and its not IR35 freindly at all, furtherfore although they are working with QDOS, I have a feeling SDS will determine contractors to be inside.

Look forward to some thoughts