Reply to: How much should I be paying for self-assessment?

[jconway]

I was in a similar position a few years ago: UK tax payer with Australian income to declare on my UK self assessment. It's not as hard as you might think. Most of the work is data collection, sorting and summation, which you'll have to do anyway (because an accountant would ask for it).

Many thanks for sharing this.

May I ask one question - did you not have to also pay Australian tax (ATO) for your Australian income? So didn't you end up getting taxed twice - once in the UK, once in Australia? Or was there a way for you to get around this?

[soitgoes]

It's a bit complicated in my case.

I have had, during the last tax year, investments in my country of origin (Australia), which I assume I have to pay tax on while resident in the UK. These include various kinds of funds - bond, index, actively managed funds, trusts.

In theory I have all the information I need to declare these in a tax return - there's a hefty PDF from the platform on which I held the funds, breaking all the figures down in a lot of detail.

In practice, I'd have to comb through that document and try and figure out which figures go into which fields in the online self assessment. Maybe some figures would need to be summed, as they belong in the same category. Maybe some would need to be subtracted or divided, if they need to be split into different categories. I'd also have to work out the exchange rates. And I don't know the ins and outs of UK tax law enough to know how much of that I would have to pay in the UK vs in Australia.

All of this makes me think it'd be safer just to find a good UK accountant who knows the tax law well and how best to interpret it to my advantage and can crunch the numbers.

I doubt £50 would be enough to cover this, but who knows? My general procedure with these things is to contact lots of agents, work out a rough median figure, then pay the one who seems to have their head screwed on the best.

I was in a similar position a few years ago: UK tax payer with Australian income to declare on my UK self assessment. It's not as hard as you might think. Most of the work is data collection, sorting and summation, which you'll have to do anyway (because an accountant would ask for it).

I used the self assessment product from these guys:

ww w.ftax.co.uk/

You download their PDF copy of the SA form - it looks exactly like the paper form, including dividends, overseas income, and all the other pages you'll need. You fill in the numbers, hit the magic button, and it works out all your tax calculations. When you're happy with it you hit another magic button and it uploads the result to HMRC. All from within the PDF viewer.

Things like exchange rates are handled simply enough. It's going back a few years, but I seem to recall you look at the AUD amount on your statement/tax return/whatever, plus the statement/transaction date, then look the date up in a website HMRC give you and you get HRMC's accepted exchange rate for that date. Multiply to get the GBP number and from there it's just a positive or negative number of pounds in the self assessment form.

I suppose if you plan to dump a whole pile of Australian investment and tax documents on an accountant and tell them to pick the bones out of it then that's going to be several hours work, so £500 starts to look reasonable. If you plan to collect all the data yourself then fill in the form, whether you use an automated one, an online one or a paper one, then it really isn't that hard.

(I have no affiliation with FTax other than as a satisfied user. I've used them since 2012.)

[jconway]

I thought that was what the OP was looking for... Can you tell me then what you need from someone to fill their Self Assessment? Bank statements and sort yourself how much the person got from savings interest, other sources of income (proprietary etc.), free agent access to sort yourself all dividends paid, salary, bonus, etc. or rather you just ask the customer the total figures?

It's a bit complicated in my case.

I have had, during the last tax year, investments in my country of origin (Australia), which I assume I have to pay tax on while resident in the UK. These include various kinds of funds - bond, index, actively managed funds, trusts.

In theory I have all the information I need to declare these in a tax return - there's a hefty PDF from the platform on which I held the funds, breaking all the figures down in a lot of detail.

In practice, I'd have to comb through that document and try and figure out which figures go into which fields in the online self assessment. Maybe some figures would need to be summed, as they belong in the same category. Maybe some would need to be subtracted or divided, if they need to be split into different categories. I'd also have to work out the exchange rates. And I don't know the ins and outs of UK tax law enough to know how much of that I would have to pay in the UK vs in Australia.

All of this makes me think it'd be safer just to find a good UK accountant who knows the tax law well and how best to interpret it to my advantage and can crunch the numbers.

I doubt £50 would be enough to cover this, but who knows? My general procedure with these things is to contact lots of agents, work out a rough median figure, then pay the one who seems to have their head screwed on the best.

[CryingSheep]

Sorry anyone who takes £50 for a tax return fee will not be providing 'experienced advice' - they will simply be plugging figures in boxes the same as you could have done yourself.

No one will spend great length of time ensuring the return is accurate for £50.

I thought that was what the OP was looking for... Can you tell me then what you need from someone to fill their Self Assessment? Bank statements and sort yourself how much the person got from savings interest, other sources of income (proprietary etc.), free agent access to sort yourself all dividends paid, salary, bonus, etc. or rather you just ask the customer the total figures?

[dx4100]

The whole process is simply filling in the boxes with the numbers you should already have...

Salary, Dividends, Savings... How hard can it be ? Paying someone a bit of money to do it for you is pointless, paying someone a lot of money and thinking they are doing anything special is bordering on crazy

[craigy1874]

What? You mean your tax software licence, indemnity insurance, staff costs, business running costs and AML procedure costs aren't free?

Haha yeah exactly - but it only takes half an hour so £50 is fine! Aye ok.

[craigy1874]

I don't really see what the big issue here is for the £50 - £60 fee. I provide the detailed figures all they do is plug it into software and bingo you get calculation, now I could do this myself but I prefer to get the experienced advice for the correct box ticking and filling, I think this fee is more than reasonable for my requirement, I met one independent clown who wanted £1200 plus VAT.

Sorry anyone who takes £50 for a tax return fee will not be providing 'experienced advice' - they will simply be plugging figures in boxes the same as you could have done yourself.

No one will spend great length of time ensuring the return is accurate for £50.

[bstar1]

I don't really see what the big issue here is for the £50 - £60 fee. I provide the detailed figures all they do is plug it into software and bingo you get calculation, now I could do this myself but I prefer to get the experienced advice for the correct box ticking and filling, I think this fee is more than reasonable for my requirement, I met one independent clown who wanted £1200 plus VAT.

[Craig@Clarity]

Absolutely ridiculous fee. Either they have the most junior staff doing this who don't have a clue or they are going to go bust soon.

Wouldn't touch even the most simplest of Tax Returns for that fee.

What? You mean your tax software licence, indemnity insurance, staff costs, business running costs and AML procedure costs aren't free?

[craigy1874]

Nope, Nixon Williams just did my SATR for 2018/19 with Foreign Income for £50 - £60 max Fact ! No Limited Co involved

Absolutely ridiculous fee. Either they have the most junior staff doing this who don't have a clue or they are going to go bust soon.

Wouldn't touch even the most simplest of Tax Returns for that fee.

[Maslins]

If you ask an accountant to just FILL your SATR, surely they will just ask you how much was your income, dividends, other income with property or savings, etc., they won't check the figures are accurate!

How can that cost more than ~50£? Surely they won't waste more than 30 min on it...

Remember the submission would still be going through under the accountant's HMRC details, so whatever numbers are submitted will be linked with the accountant. So yes, the actual accounting work may well take 30mins or less, but it's about the responsibility that goes along with it.

If you like analogies...imagine saying to a plumber "I want my new boiler connected up, all you need to do is put that wire in there and that pipe there. Once you've done those, please complete the gas safe (or whatever it's called) certificate." The plumber is highly unlikely to be prepared to just do exactly what you say and sign it off as their work, without checking a whole bunch of things first.

There have been plenty of occasions where we've given someone a few informal pointers (inevitably with some modest caveats) about how to DIY their tax return for free, but on the basis they submitted it themselves.

[CryingSheep]

Maybe I'm not getting it...

If you ask an accountant to just FILL your SATR, surely they will just ask you how much was your income, dividends, other income with property or savings, etc., they won't check the figures are accurate!

How can that cost more than ~50£? Surely they won't waste more than 30 min on it...

Obviously if you can't (or don't know how to) provide those figures and you are expecting the accountant to 'find out' what they should be, then is completely different story...

Also agree that many accountants won't bother to do it for 50£

[Paralytic]

I did think the same...glad another accountant on here to back me up on that so it doesn't just look like we massively overcharge!

Maybe you both massively overcharge

I too am surprised someone will do it for £50

[Maslins]

There's got to be more to this that what we're told. No way would I be doing an SATR with dividend income and investments for £50.

I did think the same...glad another accountant on here to back me up on that so it doesn't just look like we massively overcharge!

[Craig@Clarity]

Wow...if that's a one off and you have no other working relationship with them, then that's a bargain IMHO.

There's got to be more to this that what we're told. No way would I be doing an SATR with dividend income and investments for £50.