Reply to: Can I sue a company for making me lose billable time

[Lance]

At this stage in the proceedings (ie there is no legal argument yet), it would be crazy to make an offer of settlement from the plaintiff which cannot be then referred to in court.

One might expect to receive an offer from the defendant which is without prejudice (or without prejudice to save costs), but it would be very silly at this stage for the potential plaintiff to detail their requests (which may or may not be reasonable) in a way which prevents them from ever being able to show in court that they tried to be reasonable.

Fair enough. You make a sound argument.

[TheFaQQer]

It's for future proceedings. It's standard practise to negotiate like this prior to starting court proceedings.

At this stage in the proceedings (ie there is no legal argument yet), it would be crazy to make an offer of settlement from the plaintiff which cannot be then referred to in court.

One might expect to receive an offer from the defendant which is without prejudice (or without prejudice to save costs), but it would be very silly at this stage for the potential plaintiff to detail their requests (which may or may not be reasonable) in a way which prevents them from ever being able to show in court that they tried to be reasonable.

[Lance]

There aren't any current legal proceedings, so there is nothing to prejudice against.

It's for future proceedings. It's standard practise to negotiate like this prior to starting court proceedings.

[TheFaQQer]

I think I know how to deal with the retailer (e.g. small claims court). But what on earth do I do about the manufacturer, and their collusion, deception, fraud, etc, etc.??

I'd speak to the dead tree press - The Guardian does an excellent consumer rights section on a Saturday that might be worth a shout (my sister had issues with the estate agent she bought a house through and the compensation offer went from £250 to £5500 with their help).

[TheFaQQer]

1) write a letter with 'without prejudice' at the top

There aren't any current legal proceedings, so there is nothing to prejudice against.

[schater]

You have all given me lots to think about. Thank you.

Check whether the manufacturer or fitter are members of any trade bodies. If so, contact them. If not, try citizens advice.

Great suggestion! I've just asked the CFA for a copy of their Code of Conduct.

Set up a website XXXX sucks and put all your proof on there. Then keep on with the social media stuff. Point out to the head of legal services that you have proof.

What end goal is it you actually want?

I have considered a site exactly like that! I'll continue to mull it over. End goal was, and still is really, to get our floor fixed. But now I don't want the manufacturer to get away with what they did. As we have received no apology, I can only assume that this is their normal practise.

without prejudice

I never knew about 'without prejudice' - I've got some reading to do about that and your suggestions.

[Lance]

<snippity>
a few hours later we receive, directly from the manufacturer, the 'original'!!!!!

This 'original' does lay blame on the installer. Finally we are getting somewhere!!! Adn then, two days later we receive a letter from the manufacturer's head of legal services (??), that includes the 'original' report and warns us about making defamatory statements online. No apology, or explanation about what happened.

I thought you were wasting your time.
But what has happened now would boil my piss.

1) write a letter with 'without prejudice' at the top telling them you want £xxxx in full and final settlement or you're going legal. Point out that the evidence you have is correct and threats about defamation are groundless. Also point out that courts are public and best of luck suing a judge for defamation. And you WILL go public with all evidence provided at court once the case is complete no matter what the outcome.
2) When they refuse take them to the small claims court for:
a sufficient money to put it right
b compensation of your missed revenue (+ a chunk)
c compensation of emotional stress due to being lied to and threatened with legal action

You are almost certainly not going to get b or c through the court. You might get a, but more likely they'll either cough up the realistic figure in the letter, or they'll provide a 'without prejudice' counter-offer.

[BrilloPad]

Set up a website XXXX sucks and put all your proof on there. Then keep on with the social media stuff. Point out to the head of legal services that you have proof.

What end goal is it you actually want?

[mudskipper]

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...esolution-adr/

Check whether the manufacturer or fitter are members of any trade bodies. If so, contact them. If not, try citizens advice.

[schater]

After all your help, I thought you deserved an update. I didn't expected this outcome ...

Social media certainly got this case moving along (yes you were all right!). After posting on social media about how rubbish their product was, the manufacturer finally tells us on the phone that we will get the report in 3 days time. Three days? Why not give it to us now? Just send it in an email. You are going to modify it I say. No way, we would never do that they say. When we do finally get the report (via the retailer who we have the dispute with), I can tell that the imbeciles have modified it. This 'report' lays no blame on the installation. We confront the manufacturer, and they admit, in an email, to modifying it - but then lie about what they changed! We know this because ... a few hours later we receive, directly from the manufacturer, the 'original'!!!!!

This 'original' does lay blame on the installer. Finally we are getting somewhere!!! Adn then, two days later we receive a letter from the manufacturer's head of legal services (??), that includes the 'original' report and warns us about making defamatory statements online. No apology, or explanation about what happened.

We are very confused at this point.

Something dodgy is going on here. A manufacturer writes a report saying one of their good customers (a shop) has not installed the product properly at a consumer's house. The shop refuses to give the report to us. We badger the manufacturer for the report. It seems that in the background the two are scheming for a solution to shut us up. And their solution was to doctor the report to protect the shop/installer.

We are still at a loss at to what has happened here. Collusion? Doctoring documents? Deception? Fraud? Falsifying documents? I don't even know where to begin.

I think I know how to deal with the retailer (e.g. small claims court). But what on earth do I do about the manufacturer, and their collusion, deception, fraud, etc, etc.??

Is this something that Trading Standards/Office of Fair Trading needs to be notified of? I've never dealt with these organisations before so don't really know their purpose.

You lot were obviously spot on about what to do last week (thank you!). Any advice on how to take this forward with the manufacturer?

[chopper]

I have found a few flooring experts who seem to specialise in flooring disputes

Never knew such a profession existed...

But then you have this:

[schater]

Thank you all for your comments and your many valid points.

A few of you suggest focusing on fixing the floor, including getting an independent source. I have found a few flooring experts who seem to specialise in flooring disputes, and my plan is to use one of these to create a report and then, depending on that report's findings, possibly seek financial compensation from the installer. I have never sued, or been sued, or had any involvement in Small Claims Court - but I guess we all have to start once.

But I am still furious now at the manufacturer because of their actions - claiming to 'help' by allowing them into my house to create a report, and then not giving it to us. As far as I can recall, we never signed anything with the manufacturer ... unless the technician gave us paperwork to sign, but I don't recall that. So I am keen to ensure they do not get away with this. (We have tried contacting the MD, but were diverted to Head of Customer Services - what a joke.)

Thank you all again.

[washed up contractor]

Regarding the faulty product, your claim is against the retailer and \ or the installer not, the manufacturer.

Can you sue (who, the manufacturer? You have no contract with them.) for loss of income due to the report not being made available to you? Good luck with that one and I very much doubt it, you should have used an independent source to produce your report.

Your option now is to take more time off and get an independent report then use the Small Claims Court to recover the cost of loss of income and the two reports. But, you'll also have to show the Court you have tried to reach an amicable solution.

[LondonManc]

I'd be more focused on getting my floor fixed. Appreciate that you want to lash out because they're behaving less than fairly but threatening to sue them will just put their barriers up further. A threatened social media campaign will sort them out.

[billybiro]

Legal action is a waste of time.

Contact the MD of the manufacturing company and retailer. Tell them that unless your issue is resolved you are going to tell the world what happened on social media.

This. This is how such issues are resolved in the modern day.

I know many people who have spent a lot of time trying to do things the "traditional" way (i.e. trying to actually speak to a human being who cares, can help you and won't just fob you off, over the phone) and they've got precisely nowhere. Then they post it on Twitter and Facebook and mention specific "consumer champions" in the message, and suddenly hundreds if not thousands of people have shared/liked/retweeted the complaint message. And suddenly the company at fault sits up, takes notice and resolves your problem very, very quickly. Funny that, eh?