Does opt-out override the late payment law?

[tractor]

I beg to differ! We chase everything

Do you pay without a signed timesheet too?

[SueEllen]

I beg to differ! We chase everything

You aren't every agency plus you are big enough for clients to know your threats should be taken seriously.....

[Andy Hallett]

Agents are more likely to pursue a client who doesn't pay up if you aren't opted-out and they have to pay you.

I beg to differ! We chase everything

[SueEllen]

That's pretty reassuring to me.

I haven't seen the contract yet, it's getting sent to me tomorrow then I'll send it off for review. Do agencies get antsy about waiting for it to be signed, and would that be a sign to walk or at least reinforce the need to get it reviewed? I would do the 24hr express one so it's not like they have wait long...

Individual agents get antsy but 99% of agency directors are fine with it.

[sbux]

That's how we used to do it before the regulations came into place. I take the view I don't need a Government "nannying" around with regulations. I'm a grown up man with a business and I can take care of myself Before we had regulations I wasn't of the opinion any were needed.

That's pretty reassuring to me.

I haven't seen the contract yet, it's getting sent to me tomorrow then I'll send it off for review. Do agencies get antsy about waiting for it to be signed, and would that be a sign to walk or at least reinforce the need to get it reviewed? I would do the 24hr express one so it's not like they have wait long...

[tractor]

....

Excellent for putting you outside IR35

but yes agreed, that's why you need to be sure the contract is acceptable, and I agree that particular clause isn't.

In my view you can achieve your objective with a fair contract, and I would be relaxed about opting out. In other words if an agency asked me to opt out I would do it on the basis of a contract with acceptable conditions.

That's how we used to do it before the regulations came into place. I take the view I don't need a Government "nannying" around with regulations. I'm a grown up man with a business and I can take care of myself Before we had regulations I wasn't of the opinion any were needed.

^Exactly

But IME fewer and fewer agents are prepared to agree a 'fair' contract, what they offer is increasingly one sided and usually precipitated by the tulip, protectionist advice given to them by their lawyers (and probably but I have no evidence, REC and APSO).

Best as always to get a review with one of the professionals who also negotiate away the dross for you. That way, you are not involved in the dialog and they (usually) cannot kid a lawyer who can quote chapter and verse where we as contractors usually can not.

As for the second point, I used to work with Capita, they were great at the time, one of the best contracts I had ever had. But since 2000, the agency landscape has changed significantly. Would I work via them now? Not a cat in Hell's chance. You only have to read these fora on a weekly basis to see how many agents try to shaft contractors wrt the last week/month's invoice or even many weeks/month's claiming 'no timesheet' etc. Any little bit of help is welcome AFAIAC.

[BlasterBates]

But when yiou opt out, agents can put far more onerous clauses in than they can otherwise esp.a round payment terms. I had one offer with a clause to the effect that payments against timesheets were 'interim loans' against the full contract being determined and if you left or the client asked you to leave for any reason, you would have to pay back all monies.

Excellent for putting you outside IR35

but yes agreed, that's why you need to be sure the contract is acceptable, and I agree that particular clause isn't.

In my view you can achieve your objective with a fair contract, and I would be relaxed about opting out. In other words if an agency asked me to opt out I would do it on the basis of a contract with acceptable conditions.

That's how we used to do it before the regulations came into place. I take the view I don't need a Government "nannying" around with regulations. I'm a grown up man with a business and I can take care of myself Before we had regulations I wasn't of the opinion any were needed.

[tractor]

....

Contractor Doctor: Can my agency refuse to pay an approved and signed timesheet?

You need to check your contract for special provisions on payment, but generally no the agency can't withold payment if the client has accepted your work.

But when yiou opt out, agents can put far more onerous clauses in than they can otherwise esp.a round payment terms. I had one offer with a clause to the effect that payments against timesheets were 'interim loans' against the full contract being determined and if you left or the client asked you to leave for any reason, you would have to pay back all monies.

[BlasterBates]

Contractor Doctor: Can my agency refuse to pay an approved and signed timesheet?

In fact, Sinclair adds, even if the contractor has opted out, unless there are specific provisions in the contract between the agency and the contractor about the timing of payments, the agency would not generally be entitled to withhold payment if the contractor has a signed and approved timesheet.

You need to check your contract for special provisions on payment, but generally no the agency can't withold payment if the client has accepted your work.

[SueEllen]

Agents are more likely to pursue a client who doesn't pay up if you aren't opted-out and they have to pay you.

[TheFaQQer]

It depends on what the contract says. If the contract gives the agency the right to withhold payment, then they withhold the payment in line with the contract. If it doesn't give them the right to do that, and they do it anyway, then you chase for late payment.

Where not opting out helps you is even if there is a clause in the contract that says you don't get paid unless they do, then that's not valid because they have to pay you regardless of whether they get paid or not.

[sbux]

I feel stupid for asking this, but I'm no lawyer and new to the whole game...

When a contractor is opted-out at the right time (before meeting client), if the end-client was to never pay the agency, where does that leave the contractor? Who does the contractor chase down for money, I assume it would be the agency, but what incentive does the agency have to chase down the end-client, they didn't do the work themselves, so would only lose a few quid on fees right?