IR35 and HMRC Scheme Enquiries

[deckster]

Can I just remind everybody that HMRC read every word written on this forum. I'm sure they have looked at this in detail anyway but I for one am very uncomfortable about us discussing any potential weakness in the George argument in open forum. Let's not give them any more help than we need to eh.

[DaveB]

Perhaps I am oversimplifying this, but my understanding is that to be deemed inside IR35 there has to be all 3 of the following:

1. Control
2. No right to substitution
3. Mutuality of obligation

Technically there is nothing stopping you declaring yourself inside anyway and just paying standard NI and IC as a normal employee. HMRC certainly wouldn't challenge you on it for current or future contracts, it may be a a bit harder to back date it....

[superdeano]

Perhaps I am oversimplifying this, but my understanding is that to be deemed inside IR35 there has to be all 3 of the following:

1. Control
2. No right to substitution
3. Mutuality of obligation

[elpinar]

dr - could you email me possibly

thx

[elpinar]

it isnt the topic at hand ... but if as helen says you are curenlty still working for the foreseeable and are outside of ir35 you may be shooting yourself in the foot

At least in theory IR35 status is on a contract by contract basis. It's entirely possible to have several concurrent contracts and have some in and some out of IR35, nightmare to administer no doubt.

IR35 isn't really the topic at hand though

The main thing to me is that you're making some headway on countering the time machine legislation or at least the fallout from that.

[TykeMerc]

At least in theory IR35 status is on a contract by contract basis. It's entirely possible to have several concurrent contracts and have some in and some out of IR35, nightmare to administer no doubt.

IR35 isn't really the topic at hand though

The main thing to me is that you're making some headway on countering the time machine legislation or at least the fallout from that.

[elpinar]

sorry - this has passed me by

so are we saying to win by george you are claiming you are in IR35 ?

and insurnace wise ir35 stuff is tricky - as unless you pay for it each and every year it expires - ie you insure one contract for one year then 3 years later you get investigated .. if you have not carried on paying again and again for that original year you are no longer insured ....

[normalbloke]

Everyone's contracts and circumstances will be different. I'm not sure discussing them in detail on this forum is the best thing?

[helen7]

Most people running companies are a lot more savvy these days and know how to operate outside IR35.

Contracts are a lot tighter and there are insurance products to cover investigations.

I am not so sure.

It would be hard to argue that you are without doubt working under IR35 critera up until friday, and then from monday when you switched to Ltd company - you are for sure no way under IR35. I was with the same contract for 4 years beyond leaving Montpellier.

I have always had IR35 insurance but, I cannot imagine they would cover investigation defense if you have volentariliy declared failing IR35 for previous years.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Agree with and am in the same boat as Helen7 ... worried that I might get the full HMRC probe into everything I ever claimed for from 2010 -> whenever this sh*t gets resolved

For permies ... they can pull the George trigger all day long ... but living in a ltd company greenhouse ... got to price up the MTM stone before I throw it !

Most people running companies are a lot more savvy these days and know how to operate outside IR35.

Contracts are a lot tighter and there are insurance products to cover investigations.

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

One thing that jumps out at me is concern that this could affect my tax position for years after the schema where I ran the ltd company. Is this a justifiable concern or have I mis-understood somehow?

Agree with and am in the same boat as Helen7 ... worried that I might get the full HMRC probe into everything I ever claimed for from 2010 -> whenever this sh*t gets resolved

For permies ... they can pull the George trigger all day long ... but living in a ltd company greenhouse ... got to price up the MTM stone before I throw it !

[DonkeyRhubarb]

One thing that jumps out at me is concern that this could affect my tax position for years after the schema where I ran the ltd company. Is this a justifiable concern or have I mis-understood somehow?

Many people switched to other schemes after leaving the DTA. Others went permie. Some used brollies. Obviously it's a non-issue for these groups.

For those who moved back to Ltd, people were a lot more IR35 savvy by this stage. Contract reviews, PCG/IPSE membership, QDOS, insurance became the norm.

[lucozade]

One thing that jumps out at me is concern that this could affect my tax position for years after the schema where I ran the ltd company. Is this a justifiable concern or have I mis-understood somehow?

I can't see why being limited has any link to the position mentioned. Haven't you been paying all your due tax via the limited method anyway ?

[helen7]

One thing that jumps out at me is concern that this could affect my tax position for years after the schema where I ran the ltd company. Is this a justifiable concern or have I mis-understood somehow?