Reply to: Sue agency for not having schedule of work signed off

[jmo21]

... and they asked me to resign from my then current perm position, so I gave my 30 day notice.

Strange phrasing.

The contract fell through before it started.

You had to quit your permie job to take the contract, it was YOUR problem that you had 30 day notice period.

YOU would have to have handed that notice in to take the contract so to try and say the agency asked you to resign makes little sense.

Knowing you were a permie with 30 days notice, they probably wanted to double check you had actually quit so that you could make the start date of the contract.

And then the contract fell through.

It's a harsh lesson in contracting I'm afraid as others have said.

[GillsMan]

Hahaha the large font convinced me.

Ok thanks all for your advice, as you can imagine it's not what I would've liked to hear mostly because I can't see how these agencies are allowed to get away with such conduct, but you're more experienced and I respect your advice.
Even tho you're all more knowledgeable I felt some people on here could do with a bit more humbleness.

Hope you all have a nice weekend.

humility.

[northernladuk]

I don't think there's a lack of humbleness. People are simply observing the fact that you want to eat your cake and still have it.

You decided to start your own business. You quit your job to work for your own business. A contract fell through (get used to it). So what? You're in business. Find another gig. No one owes you a success story - you have to make that yourself.

Complaining that you had to hand in your notice to your permie job makes it all sound very self-contradictory - were you in business for yourself or not? What does having to quit your old job have to do with anything?

That's not an attack on you per se - I'm just trying to point out that the injustice you see is just business.

It's like people who take their pride & joy on the race track and end up binning it in the first session, and then throwing a self-pitiful tantrum - If you can't afford the risk then you have no business being there.

+1 to all that plus it's an anonymous internet forum. No one really GAS except me.

[SpontaneousOrder]

I don't think there's a lack of humbleness. People are simply observing the fact that you want to eat your cake and still have it.

You decided to start your own business. You quit your job to work for your own business. A contract fell through (get used to it). So what? You're in business. Find another gig. No one owes you a success story - you have to make that yourself.

Complaining that you had to hand in your notice to your permie job makes it all sound very self-contradictory - were you in business for yourself or not? What does having to quit your old job have to do with anything?

That's not an attack on you per se - I'm just trying to point out that the injustice you see is just business.

It's like people who take their pride & joy on the race track and end up binning it in the first session, and then throwing a self-pitiful tantrum - If you can't afford the risk then you have no business being there.

[blu]

Hahaha the large font convinced me.

Ok thanks all for your advice, as you can imagine it's not what I would've liked to hear mostly because I can't see how these agencies are allowed to get away with such conduct, but you're more experienced and I respect your advice.
Even tho you're all more knowledgeable I felt some people on here could do with a bit more humbleness.

Hope you all have a nice weekend.

[stek]

If you want to sue someone sue your limited, they took you on without the funds to pay you and without having any work for you.

[GazCol]

Really? I'd be interested to know why please.

Sure

They effectively lied to me, reassuring me everything was good on the clients side, to get me to resign.

Did they? Are you sure they didn't have a project lined up and then that project was scrapped, cancelled or reshaped? Are you aware of how often this happens, especially when you're agreeing to something 4 weeks into the future?

I guess I don't understand why it's ok to lie and take risks on other people's expense.

I think you're right - you don't understand. Under contractual law, you haven't suffered any loss. You haven't done any work. You can't be compensated for what you have not done. You might have incurred costs in setting up a limited company, you might have lost your job as a result of handing in your notice but they are your actions - not the agents. This is business risk, not contractual loss.

[I just need to test it]

Leave It. It's not worth it.

If you've really got a quid burning a hole in your pocket then write a stern letter and forget about it. But stop at that.

Taking someone to court is crap. It costs 100s for the hearing and other court filing fees. And it costs you a whole pile of angst. Add a couple of non-billable days for consulting a solicitor (will you pay for legal advice too?) and attending the hearing and you'll realise (too late) you have opened a right can of worms. And judges have this infuriating habit of not seeing things from your perspective.

EDIT: Another crap thing. Let's say, and I apologise for inadvertently giving you false hope here, you WIN the case, but the agent doesn't pay. You have to start spunking more money chasing the debt.

Remember, the house always wins.

[Scruff]

I see, so
1) 2 week notice for termination is useless because I've not actually started work
2) I've not incurred any business loss so can't claim on that basis
3) handing in my notice was my decision so I don't have a case to sue them in that respect.

Wow nice these guys are well covered by the law.

Now then, how about on the fraud front? As you say I'm no lawyer so I looked up the definition on .gov.uk site :
"Put simply, fraud is an act of deception intended for personal gain or to cause a loss to another party. "
And at least from my point of view :
1) they deceived me into quitting before they really had a client
2) they did this for personal gain
3) I suffered personal loss in this case from both unemployment and having to setup an Ltd which they required.

Please point out the flaw in my understanding here.

Points 1 to 3 supra - FFS - No you can't.

Point 1 to 3 bis - FFS - No they haven't and no you haven't.

If you still can't take advice I would suggest stop posting now and I shall ask the Admins to move this to General?

[northernladuk]

I think you have your answer from the masses. We are not legal experts so time to go down citizens advice or get a free consultation from an employment law company.

If you are going to proceed get some proper advice.

[blu]

I see, so
1) 2 week notice for termination is useless because I've not actually started work
2) I've not incurred any business loss so can't claim on that basis
3) handing in my notice was my decision so I don't have a case to sue them in that respect.

Wow nice these guys are well covered by the law.

Now then, how about on the fraud front? As you say I'm no lawyer so I looked up the definition on .gov.uk site :
"Put simply, fraud is an act of deception intended for personal gain or to cause a loss to another party. "
And at least from my point of view :
1) they deceived me into quitting before they really had a client
2) they did this for personal gain
3) I suffered personal loss in this case from both unemployment and having to setup an Ltd which they required.

Please point out the flaw in my understanding here.

[Scruff]

Thanks Scruff, it's a pleasure to hear your advice because I'm learning.
It's true, I certainly don't know the law well enough otherwise I wouldn't be in this situation perhaps.
I would appreciate if you could expand more on why I should move on based on your understanding of the law.

Because you haven't suffered any losses under contractual law? There doesn't seem to be any basis for any claim - please read my paragraph above?

[blu]

Thanks Scruff, it's a pleasure to hear your advice because I'm learning.
It's true, I certainly don't know the law well enough otherwise I wouldn't be in this situation perhaps.
I would appreciate if you could expand more on why I should move on based on your understanding of the law.

[Scruff]

Scruff:correct I didn't start contract or perform any work, tho I would consider the money I've spent for the company as actual loss. Contract was in England.

And I don't want to pay huge amounts to some lawyer for this so if I can't sort it out I'll probably let it go.

Regarding "man up, learn the lesson, move on." I believe I have done exactly that, didn't sit around trying to sue them when it happened, went out and found a job. But I don't see why I should just let the matter go without at least trying to claim some money for all the trouble they caused.

@blu

I am sorry, but this is "Business Risk"? You haven't actually incurred any losses arising out of the contract itself. They are normal "costs" as opposed to "losses" and they have arisen as a result of a decision that you have made to start your own business.

I am not being critical here, just passing on basic advice, so please don't misunderstand me. I would suggest moving on, since a basic understanding of contractual law is not in your armoury.

IANAL

[blu]

Nope, no case at all. No work - no pay, not even to compensate you for handing in your notice which couldn't be retracted.

Really? I'd be interested to know why please.

They effectively lied to me, reassuring me everything was good on the clients side, to get me to resign.

I guess I don't understand why it's ok to lie and take risks on other people's expense.