So, as stupid as it might sound, I am struggling to work out who the client is for my current engagement, and therefore how to work out the IR35 status.
I accepted an offer earlier this year to work with a Public Sector org via an agency. The agency said that the client had made a blanket decision that all contracts were within IR35 and I acknowledged that this might be the case but said that I wanted an SDS with full rationale, rather than just agreeing the blanket answer, but would agree to work via an umbrella in the interim due to the urgency of the start date (2 days away). The umbrella company contract named the PSect org as the end client.
After a couple of weeks the agency came back and advised that, actually, there was another party in the relationship and they needed to amend the contract to reflect this. It turns out that the actual contractual relationships were PSect to Consultancy (via a GCloud contract for services), Consultancy to Agency, Agency to Umbrella, Umbrella to me. The consultancy confirmed that they had won the work from the PSect org, that they were providing a full managed service, that the PSect org didn't care who delivered the service just that it was done, that they were the end client, not the PSect org, and that they were classed as a small organisation for the purposes of IR35 determination.
Having leant all of this I set out why the IR35 determination was therefore my decision to make, and that I didn't believe that it applied, along with the reasons why. I asked for a B2B contract from the agency for review and suggested that I documented the working relationship and had this and the contract reviewed, at my expense, by Qdos. They have now come back to say that their lawyer has decided that the PSect org is the end client after all and they are not supplying a fully managed service as I use one of the PSect org's laptops (for security reasons). The agency have said they they are going to produce a status determination, despite me pointing out that it has to come from the PSect org, and that it will be "inside".
The working arrangements are that I determine the work to be done, agree what will be delivered each month, how it should be done, and make suggestions to the PSect org about what other work they need to think about along with how I think they should do it. I also run workshops to define the overall scope and the timelines for delivery. The hours are decided by me, and all of the work is remote. I don't complete PSect org or agency timesheets, just one for the consultancy, and the consultancy asks me what the deliverables are before then getting those agreed with the PSect org for their records.
I am now in the position of not being able to work out who the actual end client is and therefore not being able to get a correct determination. I have been clear with both the consultancy and the agency that I am not trying to get a determination one way or the other, I just want one that correctly reflects the contractual relationships and the working arrangements. If that is "inside", then it is what it is. Everything is very amicable.
Does anybody have any experience of this type of four tier relationship? Working with a consultancy via GCloud? Figuring out who the actual "client" is?!
Any thoughts or suggestions gratefully received!
I accepted an offer earlier this year to work with a Public Sector org via an agency. The agency said that the client had made a blanket decision that all contracts were within IR35 and I acknowledged that this might be the case but said that I wanted an SDS with full rationale, rather than just agreeing the blanket answer, but would agree to work via an umbrella in the interim due to the urgency of the start date (2 days away). The umbrella company contract named the PSect org as the end client.
After a couple of weeks the agency came back and advised that, actually, there was another party in the relationship and they needed to amend the contract to reflect this. It turns out that the actual contractual relationships were PSect to Consultancy (via a GCloud contract for services), Consultancy to Agency, Agency to Umbrella, Umbrella to me. The consultancy confirmed that they had won the work from the PSect org, that they were providing a full managed service, that the PSect org didn't care who delivered the service just that it was done, that they were the end client, not the PSect org, and that they were classed as a small organisation for the purposes of IR35 determination.
Having leant all of this I set out why the IR35 determination was therefore my decision to make, and that I didn't believe that it applied, along with the reasons why. I asked for a B2B contract from the agency for review and suggested that I documented the working relationship and had this and the contract reviewed, at my expense, by Qdos. They have now come back to say that their lawyer has decided that the PSect org is the end client after all and they are not supplying a fully managed service as I use one of the PSect org's laptops (for security reasons). The agency have said they they are going to produce a status determination, despite me pointing out that it has to come from the PSect org, and that it will be "inside".
The working arrangements are that I determine the work to be done, agree what will be delivered each month, how it should be done, and make suggestions to the PSect org about what other work they need to think about along with how I think they should do it. I also run workshops to define the overall scope and the timelines for delivery. The hours are decided by me, and all of the work is remote. I don't complete PSect org or agency timesheets, just one for the consultancy, and the consultancy asks me what the deliverables are before then getting those agreed with the PSect org for their records.
I am now in the position of not being able to work out who the actual end client is and therefore not being able to get a correct determination. I have been clear with both the consultancy and the agency that I am not trying to get a determination one way or the other, I just want one that correctly reflects the contractual relationships and the working arrangements. If that is "inside", then it is what it is. Everything is very amicable.
Does anybody have any experience of this type of four tier relationship? Working with a consultancy via GCloud? Figuring out who the actual "client" is?!
Any thoughts or suggestions gratefully received!
