Increasing HMRC revenue via IR35 changes is flawed

[eek]

I'm on the market atm and have been talking to a lot of agents and ex-colleagues the last couple of weeks. This is what I am hearing mainly:

• A lot of EU nationals who were just here for the money are leaving the UK if they can find something
• A lot of Brits are grabbing contracts outside of UK if they can
• Contractors are converting to perms en masse
• There are still Outside IR35 contracts coming up
• Clients are not sure what to do and sitting on roles atm

Sum total is HMRCs revenue from our skills base is going to DECREASE.

Arrogant idiots who don't seem to understand the job we do and are turning us into glorified pizza delivery temps. I've been through many crashes, market forces will prevail in the end, I think its just going to be very ugly for 6 months. I wonder how HMRC are going to save face when they realise what a cluster f*** they've done.

Yep and it doesn't matter.

IR35 is ran by the NI team and it's their job to keep Employer NI coming in... How many times do I need to repeat it,

And even before the Coronavirus this was a give away budget, no change in pensions, no real change in ER

[LondonManc]

It creates great opportunities for the chancellor’s father-in-law. Nuff said.

[eek]

It creates great opportunities for the chancellor’s father-in-law. Nuff said.

Any company that doesn't understand it's an IT company first and whatever it makes it's money from second isn't long for this world

[BolshieBastard]

I don't get the logic behind HMRC and the IR35 changes. As far as I understand the ultimate objective is to increase the tax revenue to HMRC, based on the assumption contractors are underpaying it, but the figures seem to state the opposite.

e.g. I made up a spreadsheet to compare the options. Based on the market rate for my skills/experience/location:

• As an Outside IR35 contractor I pay approx HMRC £34,440 (£18,240 company tax + £16,200 personal tax from salary and dividends).
• If this was split (e.g. wife, etc) HMRC still receive £27,440.
• If I took a similar market rate perm role, HMRC would only receive £16,200.

So HMRC are going to be receiving around £18,000 LESS in tax from me in future. HMRC are throwing away contractors being taxed double (paying personal tax on money their company has already paid tax on).

Am I missing something here? How do they think it will increase their revenue?

Nope. It's all about bringing as many people as possible into scope of PAYE and limiting the number of people able to write off tax deductibles to the fewest possible.

[BrilloPad]

Nope. It's all about bringing as many people as possible into scope of PAYE and limiting the number of people able to write off tax deductibles to the fewest possible.

Well its important that everyone pays their fair share. Retrospectively. As happened to me. I hope it never happens to you....

[AnthonyQuinn]

I'm on the market atm and have been talking to a lot of agents and ex-colleagues the last couple of weeks. This is what I am hearing mainly:

• A lot of EU nationals who were just here for the money are leaving the UK if they can find something
• A lot of Brits are grabbing contracts outside of UK if they can
• Contractors are converting to perms en masse
• There are still Outside IR35 contracts coming up
• Clients are not sure what to do and sitting on roles atm

Sum total is HMRCs revenue from our skills base is going to DECREASE.

Arrogant bean counters who don't seem to understand the job we do and are turning us into glorified pizza delivery temps. I've been through many crashes, market forces will prevail in the end, I think its just going to be very ugly for 6 months. I wonder how HMRC are going to save face when they realise what a cluster f*** they've done.

I have been a perm for 7 years, a contractor for 10 and a recruiter for 3. I assure you, in most cases, inside iR35 still pays significantly more than perm equivalent. Indeed I was inside IR35 and was offered perm but declined having calculated an income drop of 23%.

Most contractors will bend over and go inside. Yes some will be lost to the UK as you have mentioned above. But its not as if there are lots of openings in the EU.

[SeededLoaf]

You will not go perm. You will continue as a contractor inside IR35 and that will increase their tax take

Exactly. Contracts in my skills area pay around £100K or £45-50K perm.

If you're happy to play the long game then doing a salary sacrifice will reduce your tax considerably.

[BrilloPad]

Exactly. Contracts in my skills area pay around £100K or £45-50K perm.

If you're happy to play the long game then doing a salary sacrifice will reduce your tax considerably.

I was looking at about a 20% cut. But saw the writing on the wall and got a 10% increase. People should read CUK more - incredible how many "contractors" do no research and have got no clue. I know that NLUK is always amazed when any new poster comes along who has no idea - I am sure one day he will get tired of it and let his anger show....

[eek]

Exactly. Contracts in my skills area pay around £100K or £45-50K perm.

If you're happy to play the long game then doing a salary sacrifice will reduce your tax considerably.

And it's not a bad trade off if you don't have travel costs - max pension contributions in return for very little difference in rights compared to a permanent member of staff who has been there less than 2 years and probably less internal rubbish such as 360 appraisals.

[LondonManc]

Any company that doesn't understand it's an IT company first and whatever it makes it's money from second isn't long for this world

Failed businesses:
eek's hairdressing salon
eek's windowcleaning services
eek's model agency
eek's apostrophe usage tutors
.....