IR35 - Did the big firms collude and break competition law?

[WavyDavy]

I've had several conversations of late where people anecdotally mentioned that the IR35 impact to companies isn't as great as feared.

People have said, there's been an emotional reaction, but ultimately, very few contractors have chosen to move on.

Each time, I've asked, "Why do you think that is?"

A consistent response has been, "Because all the large companies had the same response, PSC bans, all contractors through umbrella companies. If companies all took a different approach, then there would have been large movements of contractors to those with a more flexible approach and a greater impact would have been seen"

Each time, I've asked, "How did they all end up using the same approach?"

A common response has been, "oh the larger resourcing companies ran working groups with companies to help them form a consistent response". By "larger resourcing companies", read Alexander Mann, Resource Solutions, etc.

So...

I'm no lawyer, but I work in markets where collusion and competition law are a factor. There are laws that stop cartels from working together to disadvantage market participants. These laws are there to encourage market liquidity and fair competition. If the above is true, and it feels like it could be, these laws would have been broken

Has this been discussed before and is there a legal opinion in the group that has a view?

[BrilloPad]

Do you have proof of this?

[BR14]

dear, oh dear

[BrilloPad]

dear, oh dear

Why do you say that?

[WavyDavy]

Do you have proof of this?

Proof of a conversation? No, I didn't record them.

But that's not how this works. If there is reason to believe competition law has been broken, then discovery either by law enforcement or regulators will reveal collusion. The act of obfuscating collusion only make sit more obvious.

[BR14]

Why do you say that?

the increasingly hysterical search by some posters for some kind of magic fix which will make IR35 go away.
it won't
it's here.
deal with it.
ffs.

[northernladuk]

Business policies on dealing with suppliers is completely different to collusion surely. Are we going to try sue every company that's started using Agile to keep up with market or created diversity policies etc?

But I guess in keeping with what appears be the trend at the moment we don't like it therefore it must be illigeal.

[WavyDavy]

the increasingly hysterical search by some posters for some kind of magic fix which will make IR35 go away.
it won't
it's here.
deal with it.
ffs.

Nothing hysterical here. Not even trying for magical.

But competition law is a real thing and people take it more seriously in organisations than HMRC.

Don't you wonder how none of the companies felt they had to break ranks to get the best talent? How they were sure they'd keep the good people?

[WavyDavy]

Business policies on dealing with suppliers is completely different to collusion surely. Are we going to try sue every company that's started using Agile to keep up with market or created diversity policies etc?

Not at all. Competition law is there to protect suppliers. Large companies can't form a working group to decide how they deal with suppliers if that compresses the market. Competition law prevents that. Or should.

[northernladuk]

Not at all. Competition law is there to protect suppliers. Large companies can't form a working group to decide how they deal with suppliers if that compresses the market. Competition law prevents that. Or should.

They've got a limited number of options available to them (less than 5) and they've just picked one surely? Have they copied the others or picked one of the few options thst happens to suit large firms?

I'd turn your phone off in between replies if I were you, what with the radiation killing you and the FBI listening in.