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IR35 determination - EY Confirm Tool

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    #21
    I’ve recently went through the EY confirm tool. In truth it’s CEST in frilly knickers. The question language is exactly the same.

    Doesn’t seem to give immediate answer to the person completing the questionnaire instead goes to HR or even EY for checking.

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by IndyWorker View Post
      I’ve recently went through the EY confirm tool. In truth it’s CEST in frilly knickers. The question language is exactly the same.

      Doesn’t seem to give immediate answer to the person completing the questionnaire instead goes to HR or even EY for checking.
      They then check who in EY can replace you before giving the answer


      Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
        They then check who in EY can replace you before giving the answer


        Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum
        and this is the problem with shifting the liability of IR35 onto the client.

        There is no definitive definition of employment but contractors were prepared to take more risk, based on case law, experience and knowledge of their own contracts and HMRC's lack of success in the courts and so on and so would happily fly with an 'undetermined' status or better.

        By moving the liability to the end user, they have a much more risk adverse stance and so the majority of the tools out there are going to reflect this and only accept a definitive 'outside', which is actually pretty strict. The fact these vendors have a resourcing arm is the icing in the cake.

        Once HMRC have destroyed contractors working through Limited Company's, Department for Work and Pensions are going to come after the Disguised Employers (Umbrella's) so the only route open is permanent employment, even if for six months.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by pacontracting View Post

          Once HMRC have destroyed contractors working through Limited Company's, Department for Work and Pensions are going to come after the Disguised Employers (Umbrella's) so the only route open is permanent employment, even if for six months.
          I fear it will be worse than that...

          Pretty soon all this will be forgotten and the “new normal”

          The large firms will say, why have I got people I pay pensions, sick pay, holiday pay, health insurance, death-in-service, that I can’t fire or restructure? Why don’t I make them all like the contractors and pay a tiny bit more than salary and not have any of these issues/costs?

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by WavyDavy View Post
            I fear it will be worse than that...

            Pretty soon all this will be forgotten and the “new normal”

            The large firms will say, why have I got people I pay pensions, sick pay, holiday pay, health insurance, death-in-service, that I can’t fire or restructure? Why don’t I make them all like the contractors and pay a tiny bit more than salary and not have any of these issues/costs?
            I missed pacontracting's gibberish but what you say is correct - no permanent company is going to have a lot of permanent staff if No Right Employees are an option...
            merely at clientco for the entertainment

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
              They then check who in EY can replace you before giving the answer


              Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum
              This is worrying. Just been told that my new client uses this tool. Am quite concerned now.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by Hawkeye View Post
                This is worrying. Just been told that my new client uses this tool. Am quite concerned now.
                Winner winner chicken dinner for EY

                I hear they are ramping up there grad intake this year to replace contractors


                Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by pacontracting View Post
                  and this is the problem with shifting the liability of IR35 onto the client.

                  There is no definitive definition of employment but contractors were prepared to take more risk, based on case law, experience and knowledge of their own contracts and HMRC's lack of success in the courts and so on and so would happily fly with an 'undetermined' status or better.

                  By moving the liability to the end user, they have a much more risk adverse stance and so the majority of the tools out there are going to reflect this and only accept a definitive 'outside', which is actually pretty strict. The fact these vendors have a resourcing arm is the icing in the cake.

                  Once HMRC have destroyed contractors working through Limited Company's, Department for Work and Pensions are going to come after the Disguised Employers (Umbrella's) so the only route open is permanent employment, even if for six months.
                  This is the problem with shifting the determination to a third party who benefits from a given outcome who will happily scare the client with fears of back tax, holiday pay claims, sickpay claims, etc.

                  DaveB - has anyone actually received a result yet and does it match a QDOS assessment? I would suspect that the client rep answering their part of the tool is being led to an inside assessment.
                  The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by LondonManc View Post
                    This is the problem with shifting the determination to a third party who benefits from a given outcome who will happily scare the client with fears of back tax, holiday pay claims, sickpay claims, etc.

                    DaveB - has anyone actually received a result yet and does it match a QDOS assessment? I would suspect that the client rep answering their part of the tool is being led to an inside assessment.
                    I'm going to embark on a qdos review and a EY review.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by Hawkeye View Post
                      I'm going to embark on a qdos review and a EY review.
                      It'll be interesting to see the difference. If you're close enough to the client rep who's answering the tool it would be worth seeing what they answer (or indeed talking to them before they do!)
                      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

                      Comment

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