RBS, contractors and IR35

[PTP]

I suspect some will calculate that there is no, or very little financial advantage, to continuing being a contractor inside IR35 and seek a permanent job but I can't imagine anyone doing a FTC unless they absolutely have to as it is more or less the worse of both worlds (unless they are seriously well paid).

Market forces work both ways and kaleidoscope could very well be about to be shaken where the talent pool available for highly skilled resource they can bring in and get rid of may very well get smaller.

Agree: Little financial advantage over permie if inside and unable to claim T&S
Don't totally agree: Avoid FTC

I can see why people may think FTC is the worst of worlds.

For me, there's only 2 companies in my industry commutable from my home day-to-day.
I think there is a possibility 12/24 months down the line that HMRC/Gov will realise the disaster that this move has been and suddenly make compromises that make contracting an attractive/feasible option again. If that happened then I'd definitely switch back to contracting.
So I wouldn't want to enter into a permanent job with either of those 2 companies and then look an idiot/burn bridges by leaving them 12/24 months later.
Plus, by entering into just a 12 month FTC, I can easily take a month off at the end of it without anyone's permission and I bet they'd have me back after.

So to be honest, if things do turn out bad tomorrow/April, I would rather enter a 12 month FTC than be permanent

[JohntheBike]

Agree: Little financial advantage over permie if inside and unable to claim T&S
Don't totally agree: Avoid FTC

I can see why people may think FTC is the worst of worlds.

For me, there's only 2 companies in my industry commutable from my home day-to-day.
I think there is a possibility 12/24 months down the line that HMRC/Gov will realise the disaster that this move has been and suddenly make compromises that make contracting an attractive/feasible option again. If that happened then I'd definitely switch back to contracting.
So I wouldn't want to enter into a permanent job with either of those 2 companies and then look an idiot/burn bridges by leaving them 12/24 months later.
Plus, by entering into just a 12 month FTC, I can easily take a month off at the end of it without anyone's permission and I bet they'd have me back after.

So to be honest, if things do turn out bad tomorrow/April, I would rather enter a 12 month FTC than be permanent

a reasonable position to take, which reinforces what seems to be the general opinion in that each contractor will look at the issues from their own personal perspective and the situation that they are presented with. I personally wouldn't dismiss an FTC mainly because of my own personal circumstances.

[northernladuk]

I think there is a possibility 12/24 months down the line that HMRC/Gov will realise the disaster that this move has been and suddenly make compromises that make contracting an attractive/feasible option again. If that happened then I'd definitely switch back to contracting.

Not a chance that is going to happen. You are kidding yourself if you making any decisions based on that. Nothing like that has happened from the day IR35 came in. It hasn't happened to any of the PS contacts which are now past the timescales you mention and instead of making compromises they have slapped us with the private sector changes.

We don't really know what is going to happen but I'd bet everything I own it won't be that.

[JohntheBike]

Not a chance that is going to happen. You are kidding yourself if you making any decisions based on that. Nothing like that has happened from the day IR35 came in. It hasn't happened to any of the PS contacts which are now past the timescales you mention and instead of making compromises they have slapped us with the private sector changes.

We don't really know what is going to happen but I'd bet everything I own it won't be that.

Well, consider the universal credit fiasco, and come to think of it, what's happening about the reduction in tax take as a result of the abolition of the tax disc?

[northernladuk]

Well, consider the universal credit fiasco, and come to think of it, what's happening about the reduction in tax take as a result of the abolition of the tax disc?

And how are those relevant to a situation where legislation has been in place for 19 years without a hint of a climb down and 2 years since PS hits and they've pushed it to everyone? Completely different beasts so hardly relevant to our situation. Long history suggests what PTP is hoping isn't going to land so IMO it would not be a good idea to make 2 year plans based on something that has, not only never happened, but is getting worse.

If they'd shown come common sense and admitted the PS implementation was a disaster for the clients and contractors alike then maybe, but they think it's a great win, enough so to widen the net. They'll claim it's a success whatever actually happens in 2020 and beyond.

[JohntheBike]

And how are those relevant to a situation where legislation has been in place for 19 years without a hint of a climb down and 2 years since PS hits and they've pushed it to everyone? Completely different beasts so hardly relevant to our situation. Long history suggests what PTP is hoping isn't going to land so IMO it would not be a good idea to make 2 year plans based on something that has, not only never happened, but is getting worse.

If they'd shown come common sense and admitted the PS implementation was a disaster for the clients and contractors alike then maybe, but they think it's a great win, enough so to widen the net. They'll claim it's a success whatever actually happens in 2020 and beyond.

I was merely pointing out that some HMG projects have been flawed and depending on the seriousness of the implications, some changes have been made, particularly with UC and now possibly with the life time pension issues with regards to NHS consultants. Now that a fraud scandal has been discovered in the UC provisions, HMG will have to think again. Not sure what's happened about the vehicle tax though.

I do agree that to suggest that there might be some back peddling over IR35 is fanciful, and without a concerted effort in the courts or some very obvious downsides to the commercial environment, which I guess won't happen, HMG will not be forced to make any changes.

Tomorrow's announcements will determine the future credibility of some of the lobbying organisations I'd bet.

[webberg]

I've said elsewhere that IR35 is here to stay.

It will get extended to small end clients.

Then we will see tax law changes to remove self employment for all except very low earners (perhaps below the VAT threshold).

This can be achieved by requiring all clients paying for a service or contractor time, to deduct tax at source.

Has been done before.

[northernladuk]

I was merely pointing out that some HMG projects have been flawed and depending on the seriousness of the implications, some changes have been made, particularly with UC and now possibly with the life time pension issues with regards to NHS consultants. Now that a fraud scandal has been discovered in the UC provisions, HMG will have to think again. Not sure what's happened about the vehicle tax though.
.

Point out all you want but if it's totally irrelevant then you are just wasting everyone's time.

[BolshieBastard]

I've said elsewhere that IR35 is here to stay.

It will get extended to small end clients.

Then we will see tax law changes to remove self employment for all except very low earners (perhaps below the VAT threshold).

This can be achieved by requiring all clients paying for a service or contractor time, to deduct tax at source.

Has been done before.

Have to say, This!

[JohntheBike]

I've said elsewhere that IR35 is here to stay.

It will get extended to small end clients.

Then we will see tax law changes to remove self employment for all except very low earners (perhaps below the VAT threshold).

This can be achieved by requiring all clients paying for a service or contractor time, to deduct tax at source.

Has been done before.

yes, which is what effectively I've been saying all along. If no one puts up a fight, then they'll just bulldoze everyone.