Dust settles - what happened?

[northernladyuk]

You don't think there is another reason they do this, apart from popularity?

You don't think there is more than one other reason they do this?

[TheFaQQer]

Fair point. Yes I agree with you its very unlikely that HMRC will be able to piece this all together.

BUT in the unlikely event they do, then I'd say they have a rock solid IR35 case against you. Example - you've been doing a role for a year before April and operating as outside. Client decides you are inside now. HMRC potentially have a piece of paper saying client says you're inside so why have you been declaring yourself outside for the last year?

In my last role, I'd been there 2 years and they were fannying around sorting the issues out so I left. I calculated the monetary risk and it was something stupid like £30-£40K PLUS penalties. Life changing amounts. Sorry too risky for me.

Im in a PS role inside IR35 (and operating as thus) but its a different role/client so no retrospective.

Was the role outside? Did you meet one of the three pillars of IR35 defence - RoS, lack of MOO, lack of SDC? Because if you did have those then you have a defence against any attempt to paint you inside IR35, regardless of what HMRC's ESS shows. ESS has no basis in law - the tribunal will certainly consider what it says but a competent defence will show that the tool does not reflect the reality of the situation.

If you don't think that you would win an IR35 defence, because you are going to fail all three pillars of employment, then there may be an argument that says that you should have been paying the appropriate level of taxes all along and declared the contract to be inside IR35. Penalties would only apply if you can be shown to have actively evaded the tax due by hiding your IR35 status - given some previous posts about whether the roles are inside or outside I can understand why you might be worried about that.

[northernladyuk]

Was the role outside? Did you meet one of the three pillars of IR35 defence - RoS, lack of MOO, lack of SDC? Because if you did have those then you have a defence against any attempt to paint you inside IR35, regardless of what HMRC's ESS shows. ESS has no basis in law - the tribunal will certainly consider what it says but a competent defence will show that the tool does not reflect the reality of the situation.

If you don't think that you would win an IR35 defence, because you are going to fail all three pillars of employment, then there may be an argument that says that you should have been paying the appropriate level of taxes all along and declared the contract to be inside IR35. Penalties would only apply if you can be shown to have actively evaded the tax due by hiding your IR35 status - given some previous posts about whether the roles are inside or outside I can understand why you might be worried about that.

They are borderline at best. It is what it is.

[psychocandy]

Was the role outside? Did you meet one of the three pillars of IR35 defence - RoS, lack of MOO, lack of SDC? Because if you did have those then you have a defence against any attempt to paint you inside IR35, regardless of what HMRC's ESS shows. ESS has no basis in law - the tribunal will certainly consider what it says but a competent defence will show that the tool does not reflect the reality of the situation.

If you don't think that you would win an IR35 defence, because you are going to fail all three pillars of employment, then there may be an argument that says that you should have been paying the appropriate level of taxes all along and declared the contract to be inside IR35. Penalties would only apply if you can be shown to have actively evaded the tax due by hiding your IR35 status - given some previous posts about whether the roles are inside or outside I can understand why you might be worried about that.

I thought so at the time but borderline maybe. I'd been there a while so it was time for something new anyway and I just could not be bothered with all the hassle. The client were starting to play the one month extension game so my days were numbered anyway.

But worked out well because I got a new gig within a few weeks...

[Bluenose]

People are moving away from the point of this thread - anyone get any real world examples of what has happened/is happening as it has all gone quiet?

My personal feeling (guess) is that most have taken the hit and carried on bau.

My guess is that half of them were permietractors and will just suck it up, a quarter of them were permietractors and were declared outside and remainder were not Permietractors.

Permietractor wont be bothered but wife/Eastern European mistress will be.

Slowdown in consumer spending on shoes and women's trinkets direct result of this change

I am hoping for a rent decrease as a direct result of this lot having less cash sloshing around.

Just kidding folks (maybe).