Any point to IR35 Insurance if deemed Outside by end-client

[SueEllen]

Apologies Northernlad I've now edited my post to make sense as my question was supposed to about whether an IR35 contract review is needed now for Public Sector roles.

I take your point about insurance not being the most expensive but if it is not needed then why as a business would I have it? Similar for an IR35 review. The reason I get my contract reviewed is to have a third party opinion that protects my business. If the ESS gives me that and the liability is not with my company what is the point for Public Sector contracts? Private sector is admittedly different.

Having business costs that don't add value are very questionable surely?

So you only work in the public sector?

This explains why they brought this in.

[NomDePlum]

So you only work in the public sector?

This explains why they brought this in.

No I don't historically work in the public sector. My last contract was with the Public Sector and it looks like my next one will be. I see a number of business opportunities in the Public Sector so I might focus on that for a while and explore those. All well outside IR35 in terms of working practices. Hence my question.

If I was looking at Private Sector of course I would get a contract review.

[northernladuk]

Apologies Northernlad I've now edited my post to make sense as my question was supposed to about whether an IR35 contract review is needed now for Public Sector roles.

I take your point about insurance not being the most expensive but if it is not needed then why as a business would I have it? Similar for an IR35 review. The reason I get my contract reviewed is to have a third party opinion that protects my business. If the ESS gives me that and the liability is not with my company what is the point for Public Sector contracts? Private sector is admittedly different.

Having business costs that don't add value are very questionable surely?

Indeed but tick box contracting is slightly questionable as well. You are relying on a tool filled in by someone else that 'should' protect you an unknown length of time while God knows what might happen. IMO I'm mitigating a load of unknowns in a warzone for next to nothing. That's my opinion anyway. Have I wasted 250 quid? Dunno, but if I tighten my belt get my cigars from Fortnum & Mason instead of Harrods I could get that back

Each to his own though so up to you. Just some food for thought for you.

[NomDePlum]

Not everyone who has IR35 insurance ONLY works in the public sector.

Accepted but this forum is specifically about Public Sector IR35 and my question(s) are specific to the Public Sector.

[NomDePlum]

Indeed but tick box contracting is slightly questionable as well. You are relying on a tool filled in by someone else that 'should' protect you an unknown length of time while God knows what might happen. IMO I'm mitigating a load of unknowns in a warzone for next to nothing. That's my opinion anyway. Have I wasted 250 quid? Dunno, but if I tighten my belt get my cigars from Fortnum & Mason instead of Harrods I could get that back

Each to his own though so up to you. Just some food for thought for you.

Yes good points. Although I thought the ESS result was definitive from an HMRC perspective. I'm just exploring a thought really to see where it leads. Hopefully what forums are for.

Also the cost of the contract is not just the amount you pay to the company doing the review but the time to do it which might be billable days as well as associated admin. I've delayed starting contracts in the past whilst the contract was reviewed.

[SueEllen]

Accepted but this forum is specifically about Public Sector IR35 and my question(s) are specific to the Public Sector.

Nope you were stating because you are currently working in the public sector you don't need insurance.

However HMRC can go back a good few years if they feel like it. So they can dig through your public sector contract and go back through your private sector ones.

If none of your previous private sector clients exist then you don't need insurance.

[NomDePlum]

Nope you were stating because you are currently working in the public sector you don't need insurance.

However HMRC can go back a good few years if they feel like it. So they can dig through your public sector contract and go back through your private sector ones.

If none of your previous private sector clients exist then you don't need insurance.

If that's how you read it apologies. That wasn't the intent of the question. For previous contracts I am covered. I am talking about now that the ESS tool is in place and exclusively for Public Sector contracts that have been deemed outside IR35 by the Public sector client.

Any opinion on those circumstances?

[LondonManc]

If that's how you read it apologies. That wasn't the intent of the question. For previous contracts I am covered. I am talking about now that the ESS tool is in place and exclusively for Public Sector contracts that have been deemed outside IR35 by the Public sector client.

Any opinion on those circumstances?

Then the PSB carries the can but that determination could change, which is something that you need to be very aware of. Who knows where that would lead to with an IR35 investigation, although in theory the PSB would be liable. Make sure you keep every bit of evidence that you can.

[NomDePlum]

Then the PSB carries the can but that determination could change, which is something that you need to be very aware of. Who knows where that would lead to with an IR35 investigation, although in theory the PSB would be liable. Make sure you keep every bit of evidence that you can.

My thought on that was to have a clause in the contract to terminate the contract immediately if the determination was to change to inside IR35. I only thought of it from this discussion but it is seeming increasingly like a good idea.

And in the case were determination by the PSB is changed to inside would evidence or an contract review trump the new determination? From reading the forum discussions on the April changes in recent week my best guess at present would be that it would not. It is just a guess mind.

[northernladuk]

My thought on that was to have a clause in the contract to terminate the contract immediately if the determination was to change to inside IR35. I only thought of it from this discussion but it is seeming increasingly like a good idea.

And in the case were determination by the PSB is changed to inside would evidence or an contract review trump the new determination? From reading the forum discussions on the April changes in recent week my best guess at present would be that it would not. It is just a guess mind.

Just make sure you have a weeks notice period is all you need no?