Results of the public sector consultation is up

[Andy Hallett]

How many small agencies supply to PS though? It's a pain to get on the suppliers list and the few agencies I know of are on fixed margin. I am not sure this type of gossip is really that useful.

The answer is lots. Not all PSec bodies follow frameworks.

[eek]

The 'payer', which in most cases is the agency will be responsible for deducting and indeed responsible in the event of mis-classification.

The contractor cannot in theory get it wrong, as they no longer decide.

And who is doing the classification?

Agencies are responsible for decisions that they aren't making....

[Andy Hallett]

Agencies are responsible for decisions that they aren't making....

Correct. Also we don't have a 'best endeavours' defence, only one against fraud.

[eek]

Correct. Also we don't have a 'best endeavours' defence, only one against fraud.

I'm sure its intentional that the safest approach for you is to state a contract is inside IR35 and insist upon and bill as such via an umbrella.

Question is as I stated above how can contractors (and agencies) be sure that the umbrella companies recommended by agencies (i.e. the ones offering agencies the biggest kickbacks) are both following the rules 100%, are trustworthy, financially solvent and charging reasonable fees...

No attack is meant there but I know S3 use and recommend umbrella's which aren't the same one posters on CUK posters recommend (although granted we are biased towards the couple who post on here)...

[Andy Hallett]

HMRC have got that one covered as well. The Offshore Intermediaries Legislation has a transfer of debt provision. Agencies have a chain liability if the tax is subsequently not paid. Hook in the RTI reporting and it looks like a strategy!

We've had a PSL since the MSC legislation in 2007, any exceptions to that list are signed off by me personally and if there is a risk we'll drop the deal.

Plenty of familiar names in the EBT forum that I've stopped contractors using.

[jamesbrown]

Correct. Also we don't have a 'best endeavours' defence, only one against fraud.

So why would you risk it? Not that there will be many PS clients offering outside determinations. What are you going to do when this gets rolled out more generally? The response to the consultation rejected the idea of delay beyond April to "protect the Exchequer", yet we know that the saving is only 25m(!) of the 440m they think they're losing overall. It's going to cost the PS more than 25m Pretty soon - perhaps sooner than many think, the "no current plans" w/r to the private sector will change to "current plans" and all your other income will be subject to the same uncertainty/risk. What's your plan?

[Andy Hallett]

Results of the public sector consultation is up

We've got enough experience to know what is outside and outside. Chances are we'll be supporting clients in the decision and helping shape working practices for those genuinely outside.

As a company we are committed to PSCs as a legitimate vehicle. When and If it rolls out more generally we'll do the same.

As an international company we deal with these changes everywhere else on an annual basis. The market will be disrupted for a while, we'll adapt and then the classic supply and demand equation will kick in.

[eek]

HMRC have got that one covered as well. The Offshore Intermediaries Legislation has a transfer of debt provision. Agencies have a chain liability if the tax is subsequently not paid. Hook in the RTI reporting and it looks like a strategy!

We've had a PSL since the MSC legislation in 2007, any exceptions to that list are signed off by me personally and if there is a risk we'll drop the deal.

Plenty of familiar names in the EBT forum that I've stopped contractors using.

To be honest it wasn't you that I was aiming out S3 are big enough and bright enough to avoid such problems...

I note that you didn't argue over the other point....

[jamesbrown]

We've got enough experience to know what is outside and outside. Chances are we'll be supporting clients in the decision and helping shape working practices for those genuinely outside.

As a company we are committed to PSCs as a legitimate vehicle. When and If it rolls out more generally we'll do the same.

As an international company we deal with these changes everywhere else on an annual basis. The market will be disrupted for a while, we'll adapt and then the classic supply and demand equation will kick in.

Good for you. The one upside of having the fee payer take all the risk is that your clients are quite likely to listen to you

[Andy Hallett]

To be honest it wasn't you that I was aiming out S3 are big enough and bright enough to avoid such problems...

I note that you didn't argue over the other point....

Not convinced it will hit private sector now. I was last year, but having seen what a disaster this is shaping up to be think it might be shelved.