Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[LondonManc]

Got collared on the way out of work by a director working for the big boss. This director line manages 10 people, has been there 2 years, was bought out of her agency contract by the CCG.

Still trying to persuade me to stay. Saying I could be hosted by a sister public body, but doing same job for original client. Also I should get stationary and use my own laptop etc.

I tried to explain about working practices, making a clean break, umbrella companies and the like - she looked at me like I lived in a survivalist bunker in the Nevada desert awaiting world war three.

Nothing they can offer me, in or out, at same body or sister body, sounds as good to me as clean break, new end client, new role, new agency, using an umbrella and just paying the tax till I see if outside IR35 roles do emerge.

This lady is going to get hammered if she is investigated

If they declare it as outside, get it through the tool as outside, what's the problem?

[Andy Hallett]

If they declare it as outside, get it through the tool as outside, what's the problem?

None. I suspect the poster feels that they won't get an outside determination based on previous posts.

[LondonManc]

None. I suspect the poster feels that they won't get an outside determination based on previous posts.

That's official is it? If the determination is outside, HMRC have to abide by it?

[northernladuk]

That's official is it? If the determination is outside, HMRC have to abide by it?

Not really. It's a tool to help decide that's all. Bearing in mind they wrote it if it does determine they are outside it would be pretty stupid of them to investigate though.

[NHS1979]

None. I suspect the poster feels that they won't get an outside determination based on previous posts.

My hyper anxiety about retro grab means I won't even take an outside IR35 extension or role in the same or a sister organisation. Client and agency helpful and think I am nuts - I am convinced would be better to break the link completely by having new job, new client, new agency, and deliberately take one of the 90% of roles I expect will be inside, and then switch to an umbrella company. Already have the insurance and gotten my contracts and working practices reviewed by QDOS. I am in a minority though - most contractors are not as paranoid as me.

Doing it on good terms though as client and agency have been good. I might regret being so cautious but that's life

[RonBW]

That's official is it? If the determination is outside, HMRC have to abide by it?

HMRC have said that they would abide by it, but I suspect that we know the value of their word.

I would want something in the contract that says that the client has determined the role is outside IR35 and that in the event of HMRC deciding otherwise that the payer is liable. I'm sure that the operating guidance will make it all clear though

[RonBW]

Not really. It's a tool to help decide that's all. Bearing in mind they wrote it if it does determine they are outside it would be pretty stupid of them to investigate though.

If the circumstances and working practices haven't changed, then an investigation either means that they are saying that the client lied or that their tool is bobbins.

[northernladuk]

If the circumstances and working practices haven't changed, then an investigation either means that they are saying that the client lied or that their tool is bobbins.

Or they are incompetent

[hollyblue]

Correct. Perhaps they'll have to actually go perm in the public sector and enjoy proper employment benefits.

'enjoy proper employment benefits'? There are none in my area of PS expertise, hence why I got out and am freelancing. As a freelancer I chose my own employment benefits.

[hollyblue]

Met one of the big agencies today. Still placing people in PS, not qualifying the roles for IR35 status. Said tool was out next Thursday and they will be rewriting contracts and qualifying roles soon.

Explained I am leaving current outside IR35 gig to move to a different ps end client, with different agency, inside IR35 under an umbrella. She said I was the only contractor she'd met who'd even mentioned retrospective investigation or insurance to her. I keep coming across to everyone like I'm wearing a tinfoil hat. The agencies and contractors are so blasé

The market is picking up for people with strong skillset and CV. Unfortunately the takehome pay is badly hit in areas like the NHS due to caps on interim rates holding steady for now despite the IR35 changes. Hopefully this will change in 6 months when orgs across the country can't recruit anyone

Totally agree, one the big agencies in my area of expertise is unable to fathom why I am asking for my terms of engagement to be agreed by the end user prior to a) me agreeing to take the contract and b) I am making such a fuss before 6.4.17! I agree with someone else who said some time on the bench is necessary while PSBs and agencies catch up with the game!