Edge EBT thread

[CitySlicker]

Emails just bounce back from [email protected]

On the generic EBT thread A Man of Constant Sorrow posted



Hopefully he will join us here and we can compare notes.

When I contacted them about the 2010/11 investigation letter via [email protected] they responded very quickly and positively.

I have emailed them this morning about the 2008/09 demand that looks like it is on it's way (no letter yet, but an amount on my self portal). I will let you know how they respond. As I get a clearer picture about their approach I will update the original post.

I wouldn't be too worried about the Redstone thing. I received a 'please come back' type email a while back and the new company seemed to be setup to comply with the new (Dec 2010?) regulations. Probably not a bad thing if the pre GAAR EBT and the post schemes are seperate entities.

Early days, but what I'm seeing is that we have promising support so far.

Is anyone still in contact with Edge about the APN's? I just received one for 2005/6. When I email them on [email protected] my messages bounce back. Thank you

[Dylan]

I wouldn't bet on it... Keeping it is high on the agenda too.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

.

Editted - just in case HMRC aren't planning on it, don't want to give them ideas.

I doubt HMRC are thinking much further ahead than collecting all the "easy" APN money.

[Dylan]

.

Editted - just in case HMRC aren't planning on it, don't want to give them ideas.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Can they say "no, because this whole time you've never written to us saying that you disagree with our determination that you do owe us money

In your case they haven't made a determination. All they've done is open an enquiry. Until they issue an assessment, or closure notice, you've got nothing to appeal against.

APNs only change where the money sits (HMRC's coffers instead of your's) until the underlying tax dispute is concluded. They have no bearing on the dispute itself.

[DotasScandal]

No, they cannot do that.

However, expect them to appeal any adverse court decisions into eternity and (my personal opinion) come up with all sorts of excuses not to give the money back shall we be vindicated.

[Tiger22]

So I pay my APN. Then at some unspecified point in the future, miracle of miracles happens and HMRC are slapped down and it is judged the scheme is valid and they had no right to take the money which I paid via the APN. I try and ask for the money back. Can they say "no, because this whole time you've never written to us saying that you disagree with our determination that you do owe us money, so irrespective of the judgement we can keep your money because your lack of objection is the same thing as you agreeing with us."

Can that happen? Or is it irrelevant whether I appeal or not? I'm not talking about appealing to the APN people as I know that will go nowhere. I just wonder whether I have to have it lodged somewhere at HMRC I disagree that I owe any money.

[DotasScandal]

Ok.
An APN cares not about the specifics of the underlying dispute. And the APN team won't care either. An APN is simply a bill that HMRC conjures out of thin air by saying they believe you owe them money.
Thanks to our wonderful Parliament, who apparently isn't too concerned with presumption of innocence, they now have a right to do that.
They say it's a "payment on account".

What makes APNs so revolting is precisely the absence of right to appeal.
So the fact that you think that the loans should not be treated as
income does count for nothing in the context of an APN, and you cannot appeal on that ground.

The underlying question of loans vs income may be determined by a court at some point in the future. Consensus is that once HMRC has your money, they will be in no rush to have this happening.

[Tiger22]

Congratulations on pulling your head out of the sand. Better late than never
The grounds to appeal an APN are limited. One of these grounds is that the year in question is not "open" (=under enquiry or discovery).

You say the letter you got makes "no mention of under what tax law" they intend to open the enquiry. So it might be that the enquiry is not a valid one, ant you can therefore argue that the APN should be withdrawn.

The devil is in the details, though.

You should ask on Big Group.

Thanks, I'll follow through on Big Group for some of this.

I perhaps didn't explain myself properly. I wasn't trying to appeal the APN per se, but rather trying to appeal the general principle that I owe anything because I don't believe that a loan should be treated as income. If I had been sent a Notice of Assessment in past for this year then I could appeal that, even though if an APN subsequently came through I would have to pay it. Until now however I have never had anything through saying I owed money for that year and so have never had a need to appeal/object.

By law the APN has to be paid but I want to make sure that by not objecting at some point in principle to the demand being made, I do not tacitly agree the HMRC position.

[DotasScandal]

Ex-Edge here finally pulling head out of the sand and trying to get a grip...

I just got an APN for 06/07 for Edge-related activity. Now, other than a single one-page letter sent back in Jan 2009 saying they "intend to enquire into this return" (no mention of under what tax law), I received no further communication from HMRC for this year until the recent notice of an impending APN followed by the APN itself. Certainly I received no information until the APN itself demanding money or telling me they thought I owed money for that year (no notice of assessement, etc).

Reading the first post in this thread it is suggested that if you don't appeal then the value of the demand becomes legally enforceable. This APN is essentially the first demand to say any money is due. So should I be appealing this APN (and can I at this late stage) on basis that I don't think the money is due even though I am obliged to pay the APN? I will pay the money because I understand, legally, I have to but I don't want them to think I'm agreeing with their demands.

Congratulations on pulling your head out of the sand. Better late than never
The grounds to appeal an APN are limited. One of these grounds is that the year in question is not "open" (=under enquiry or discovery).

You say the letter you got makes "no mention of under what tax law" they intend to open the enquiry. So it might be that the enquiry is not a valid one, ant you can therefore argue that the APN should be withdrawn.

The devil is in the details, though.

You should ask on Big Group.