Edge EBT thread

[chr16v]

notice letter of imminent APN arrived- so what are exceptional circumstances?

The brown HMRC letter arrived on Saturday morning. I held my breath, opened it and found it to be a letter notifiying me of the imminent APN in the next 1-6 weeks. Yes i was expecting it some time soon, so no surprise there.

I noticed in the attached FAQ it mentions the possibility to delay the deadline in exceptional circumstances, and herein is the reason for my post.

Does anyone know what would constitute "exceptional circumstances" in the eyes of HMRC, no matter how wild they may sound.

I believe i may have exceptional circumstances (not finanical circumstances) that i dont want to divulge in public here but wondered if fellow members can have a stab at what type of circumstances might be sufficient to obtain a delay?

[administrator]

Hi,

could I please have PM access

thanks

You now have PM access.

[webberg]

The brown HMRC letter arrived on Saturday morning. I held my breath, opened it and found it to be a letter notifiying me of the imminent APN in the next 1-6 weeks. Yes i was expecting it some time soon, so no surprise there.

I noticed in the attached FAQ it mentions the possibility to delay the deadline in exceptional circumstances, and herein is the reason for my post.

Does anyone know what would constitute "exceptional circumstances" in the eyes of HMRC, no matter how wild they may sound.

I believe i may have exceptional circumstances (not finanical circumstances) that i dont want to divulge in public here but wondered if fellow members can have a stab at what type of circumstances might be sufficient to obtain a delay?

Generally taken to mean notice going to the wrong address, etc.

"Exceptional" is a high hurdle.

I think you might be better asking for others to PM you as they perhaps don't want to go public either?

[chr16v]

I think you might be better asking for others to PM you as they perhaps don't want to go public either?

good point webberg, i invite PM`s from any member who can suggest valid examples of what they think constitutes "exceptional circumstances".

[Blunt edge]

YE April 2012

I have received APNs for 2010 and 2011 but not for 2012. Has anyone received an APN for 2012?

[gettingangry]

So did they

add the loan amount as "other"
add salary
Add expenses

And also add a benefit in kind figure ?

Something like, for example

On the left-hand side
Salary 10,000
Benefit in Kind 15,000


On the right-hand side
Salary 10,000
Benefit in Kind 15,000
Others 50,000

So the Benefit in Kind on the left-hand side,which was due to the the loans, had been transferred over to the right-hand side.
But this B-i-K was only there because of the loans. If they are classing them as income there in no B-i-K.
They can't put it on the right-hand side as well. So Assessment reduced by tax paid on £15,000 (40%)

[bstar1]

Something like, for example

On the left-hand side
Salary 10,000
Benefit in Kind 15,000


On the right-hand side
Salary 10,000
Benefit in Kind 15,000
Others 50,000

So the Benefit in Kind on the left-hand side,which was due to the the loans, had been transferred over to the right-hand side.
But this B-i-K was only there because of the loans. If they are classing them as income there in no B-i-K.
They can't put it on the right-hand side as well. So Assessment reduced by tax paid on £15,000 (40%)

Whaaaat !

Are you saying they should now knock off "Benefits & Expenses received" and base total income earned only on:

Pay from employments
Interest received
Other Income

Because I think the "left" was our original submission where we had a tax return of about few hundred pounds:

Pay from Income
Interest Received
Benefits & expenses

Now the "right" side includes everything on the left including BIK and the new one "other Payments"(which is the figure I'm struggling how they came to) they then come up with the revised calculation minus what we paid on the left.

now BIK plus "other payments" is very close if not spot on to actual EBT awarded in given tax year.

[meanttobeworking]

On mine, the BIK figure on the right had been reduced to what it would have been without the loans.

There was a statement in my letter that said they calculated the other income figure by multiplying the PAYE figure for Edge on my SA x5. So they are clearly putting a lot of emphasis on accuracy :/

Basically, they're churning out estimated APNs, 100% of which will be inaccurate, and making every recipient come back to them with amended figures.

[SimonJones]

Something like, for example

On the left-hand side
Salary 10,000
Benefit in Kind 15,000


On the right-hand side
Salary 10,000
Benefit in Kind 15,000
Others 50,000

So the Benefit in Kind on the left-hand side,which was due to the the loans, had been transferred over to the right-hand side.
But this B-i-K was only there because of the loans. If they are classing them as income there in no B-i-K.
They can't put it on the right-hand side as well. So Assessment reduced by tax paid on £15,000 (40%)

This is not correct. Working on the above figures, if your total loan was 65K after your salary of 10K, than the total tax will be applied on 65K (ie 15K BIK + 50K other income).

Basically, they included tax BIK on both sides, but it the difference between the left and right you are paying, meaning it would take into account the tax you paid on BIK on the LHS, but the only difference is, on the RHS you pay at higher tax.

However, if this has happen in your case than this incorrect, but lucky and would keep quiet!

[gettingangry]

This is not correct. Working on the above figures, if your total loan was 65K after your salary of 10K, than the total tax will be applied on 65K (ie 15K BIK + 50K other income).

Basically, they included tax BIK on both sides, but it the difference between the left and right you are paying, meaning it would take into account the tax you paid on BIK on the LHS, but the only difference is, on the RHS you pay at higher tax.

However, if this has happen in your case than this incorrect, but lucky and would keep quiet!

The benefit in kind is a figure based on the benefit of have zero % loan. It's not actual income.
So the 15,000 BiK is because of the loan. They then turn round and say it's not a loan, it's income. If it's not a loan there can be no BiK.
Therefore, it can't reappear on the re-assessment. My example is 10K income and 50K loan.
In the example - the re-assessment was taxing me on £75K - I only earned £60K.