HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[new user]

The above is broadly correct and see the following for full details about HMRC Discovery Assessments and restrictions:

COM23070 - Assessing: CTSA assessments: discovery assessments

Also, bear in mind HMRC powers to issue extended time limit assessments and see my post on 5 September 2013 at:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-...chemes-54.html

A number of further clients are receiving these assessments which is really no surprise.

I understand that CTSA is about corporation tax self-assessments, for personal tax returns - discovery time is 12 months, it is stated on the HMRC web site. Could anyone explain why they use 4 years window?

[andyc2000]

I understand that CTSA is about corporation tax self-assessments, for personal tax returns - discovery time is 12 months, it is stated on the HMRC web site. Could anyone explain why they use 4 years window?

Can you share a link to that please. I can only find 12 mints for corporation tax. Although there is thatruling I saw on accounting web:

HMRC not entitled to discovery assessment | AccountingWEB

Surely that must now apply?

Cheers

Andy

[new user]

Can you share a link to that please. I can only find 12 mints for corporation tax. Although there is thatruling I saw on accounting web:

HMRC not entitled to discovery assessment | AccountingWEB

Surely that must now apply?

Cheers

Andy

Just checked HMRC web site – 12 months is the time required to keep supporting Tax Return documents
SALF203 - Self Assessment Tax Returns: Personal Tax Returns


Discovery time – 4 years, but
attributable to a tax avoidance scheme which is a notifiable arrangement or a listed or hallmarked scheme and the user of the scheme failed to disclose details to HMRC at the proper time.
SALF411 - Enquiries into Tax Returns: time limits for discovery assessments

As an employees, we submitted our p60 forms provided by the Scheme providers.

Most of the shemes providers are already dissolved and personal documents do not exists anymore, HMRC keep sending additional tax demands without any supporting evidence.

[andyc2000]

Just checked HMRC web site – 12 months is the time required to keep supporting Tax Return documents
SALF203 - Self Assessment Tax Returns: Personal Tax Returns


Discovery time – 4 years, but
attributable to a tax avoidance scheme which is a notifiable arrangement or a listed or hallmarked scheme and the user of the scheme failed to disclose details to HMRC at the proper time.
SALF411 - Enquiries into Tax Returns: time limits for discovery assessments

As an employees, we submitted our p60 forms provided by the Scheme providers.

Most of the shemes providers are already dissolved and personal documents do not exists anymore, HMRC keep sending additional tax demands without any supporting evidence.

Thanks

What do you think is the best appeal point? The fact that there was full disclosure, as all this information was provided on the tax return and therefore there is no grounds for a discovery?

Or the fact that no taxes were unlawfully avoided as there is no legislation to say that it isn't?

Or both? Any suggested templates out there?

[ssbahra]

Hi there, count me in, I'm on the original thread from an early post. I've checked with Miss Stopp's office and my appeal has been received OK from Cobham Murphy. They sent a single generic letter, with a big list of names attached to it who are appealing. All F.O.C. so far, but I'm wondering when the fees will kick in...

I was in 08/09 for a bit and 09/10 for longer, before leaving. I would be interested in checking your scheme ref numbers for both these years, as in theory Sanzar may have offered multiple schemes, but unlikely. Might be better to PM these?

I have an open COP8 enquiry for 09/10 as well as the 08/09 letter, so I've got that to look forward to as well. Anybody else with an open 09/10 enquiry, bit off the 08/09 topic, but curious?

Hi OKR, Can you drop me a line please. Wanted to found out how this is going for you. I just got the dreaded letter from Stopp and want to appeal. Appreciate if you can help me. I got a letter regarding 09/10 and 10/11 when I was with Sanzar. I just fired off a mail to contractorhelpdesk but god knows if or when they will reply?!?

[ssbahra]

Hi Old Kent Road,

I have not had a letter regarding 2009/10. I will PM you tomorrow re other points.

I decided to write my own appeal letter which I sent special delivery today.

Welcome to the thread...

Penguine, can you DM me your contact details pls? Wanted to find out what template you used pls as I am in the same boat if I do not hear anything back from contractorhelpdesk. Appreciate your assistance with this. Sukhy

[ssbahra]

I'm in for 08/09. Tried Garraway with no success other than a pointer to Contractors Helpdesk. I engaged Cobham Murphy too and got my appeal letter in.

I've tried directly emailing some of the Sanzar contacts using other email addresses I have, but no response (and no surprise!). I've found various emails from 08/09 with lots of info, so I'm keeping that to hand. I declared all of my loan payments on the 08/09 return so question the legality of the discovery assessment. I also completed and filed form AAG 1 to disclose my participation in the sceme.

I have a trusted contact in IoM who is providing some advice and also seeing if he can get hold of Sanzar representatives. Will keep all informed of progress.

Hi Lumineer. Did you contact CM directly or did contractorshelpdesk tell you to contact them? Thanks.

[ssbahra]

Hi, I was using Sanzar (Solutions / Partnership...) for 08/09 and 09/10.

Like many I received discovery notice from HMRC (Miss L J Stopp) back in March 2013 relating to the 08/09 tax year (only).

I sought out Sanzar, but found that all enquiries are being managed / filtered via Contractor Helpdesk (CH), who once satisfied you qualified for assistance, were referring users to Cobham Murphy (CM) to provide assistance to members (funded by monies made available by Sanzar).

Note, I also made direct contact with CM but was only immediately directed back to CH for processing.

I was unfortunately denied CM’s assistance by CH as they stated that the appeal money made available was only for 09/10 customers of the Sanzar Solutions, not the 08/09 customers of the Sanzar Partnership.

Im interested in "Old Kent Road", post stating that as an 08/09 user, CM provided assistance by submitting appeal notice on their behalf? Wondering if this service actually is complimentary for ex Sanzar Partnership users and I have been misled by CH?

Confused???

Is there any help being made available to ex Sanzar Partnership (08/09) users that I’m not receiving? Or am I really on my own?

At any rate, on advice (as I needed to act within the 30 day window given for appeals), I generated my own appeal notice which was accepted, and am now going through the process of correspondence with HMRC on the matter to find a resolution.

Any other appeals reached a resolution outside the threatened tribunal hearing as yet?

Any info appreciated. Thanks

Hi. How is this going? Any further correspondance? I just contcated CH and they are now sending out their own templates for appeal. Need a tax advsior ideally.

[Michael J Perry FCA]

Discovery assessments - Update

Here is the link for an explanation of time limits relating to HMRC Section 29 Discovery Assessments on individuals:

SALF411 - Enquiries into Tax Returns: time limits for discovery assessments

[andyc2000]

Here is the link for an explanation of time limits relating to HMRC Section 29 Discovery Assessments on individuals:

SALF411 - Enquiries into Tax Returns: time limits for discovery assessments

Hi Michael

So the crucial part is this:

Section 34(1)

In any case of incomplete disclosure without careless or deliberate conduct the time limit for a discovery assessment is not later than 4 years after the end of the tax year to which it relates.

So how can this actually apply if there was full disclosure (DOTAS information and SRN number)? Or am I missing something?


Cheers

Andy