AM Limited COP8 HMRC Investigation Letter..

[CDJ]

Just to let you know I am in the same position ,I was with AML in 2009 and received a letter from the HMRC in December 2013 . I was with AML for the grand total of 12 weeks at which point I resigned and went with another umbrella company .

The letter from HMRC assumes that I was with them the full year .

I have spoke to HMRC 3 times now and they have informed me AML have not supplied them with any loan amounts so the figure they have ask me to pay tax on is a “Estimate!”

They could not tell me how they calculated the estimate but that I need to pay the outstanding tax it before the 15th January 2014. I explained to them I was not with them for the full year and had the p45 to prove it . HMRC was aware of this and that my PAYE shows that I was only with them a short time . However I still need to prove to them how much I actual received in loan from AML and the only thing they will except is bank statements for the full year or confirmation from AML

I believe asking for bank statements is illegal as they are asking for information (all my ingoings and outgoings ) which is not relevant to the case.

I cannot afford to pay out what they are asking for and giving me this short amount of time over the holiday period was perfect timing on their behalf.

I am going to appeal but they are insisting that I pay what they think is outstanding by the 15th or interest will be added right back to January 2011

I feel now that I have been made out to be a criminal and insisting that the amount they have made up is wrong.

I have looked into the loans and understand that this was legal until the law was changed in April 2011 and back dated to December 2010 .

I have spoken to AML and so far it looks like they can help but with so little time left I am now getting concerned that there is no appeal letter sent .

Has anyone else had dealings with AML for this year or last and what was the outcome ?

Did you not declare the loan amounts on your SA for that year (and declare them in your P11D)???

If you have, then HMRC are talking rubbish and you can simply take a copy of these documents and send them to your case officer.

Whether you want to settle or not is completely up to you - Just to note, you cannot stop interest from being charged from jan 2011 to now.. its not the way it works.. HMRC will charge interest from the date they believe the tax was due to the point when you pay it, regardless.

By appealing, you have essentially given yourself time.. time to get all documentation together, time to assess your situation, take advice etc, time to make an informed decision.

Best of luck to you..

[gutted2014]

anyone paid up or won a tribunal yet?

I was just wondering if anyone had actually paid the requests yet from HMRC or had any success in appealing?
I need to pay by 26th jan relating to 2009/10/11 and feel appalled that it has come to this - its being going on for 3 years now for me, I was hooping this investigation might have gotten resolved by now
AML have said they will appeal on my behalf - can we trust them to do so? its interest everytime that I have to pay not them!
any ideas? anyone comment?

[varunksingh]

I spoke with AML today, they said they will answer any HMRC letter re EBT's and PBT's are ok at present (of course they would say that).. but please keep this thread going of how you get on? I've not had a letter yet...

I think once all EBT cases have been dealt with by HMRC they will come to PBTs. No reason they would'nt!

[EngConsultant]

EBT using AML and HMRC Notice of Assessment

I was on the EBT 2009/10 and 2010/11 and received an HMRC Notice of Assessment on 24th Dec 2013 with a payment date of 23rd Jan 2014 for my 2009/10 tax year. I contacted AML and they stated that they will be writing to HMRC appealing and asking to freeze any interest on the assessed amount on behalf of all contractors. I wait to see if HMRC agree to this. AML stated that they have never lost a case and their business has actually grown. AML stated HMRC's tactic is to threaten individuals into speaking to them so they can obtain additional (implicating) information that the loan is actually income, so they warm against talking to HMRC direct and send out appeal letters worded by tax lawyers on behalf of the contractor.

My view is that this will go on for as long as HMRC are willing to commit resource /costs (admin, legal, etc) to pursuing AML contactors until it becomes uneconomic. So i think the threat will continue for a few years yet as there's probably significant sums to be gain by HMRC.
I think its safer to continue to allow AML to liaise with HMRC and appeal. The big question is what happens if AML stop trading, then were are in trouble unless we can get hold of the tax lawyers who worked for them.

Does anyone know if the 5 year rule investigating tax return applies in this instance?
Would HMRC loose the ability to keeping sending out notices after 5 years?

[varunksingh]

I was on the EBT 2009/10 and 2010/11 and received an HMRC Notice of Assessment on 24th Dec 2013 with a payment date of 23rd Jan 2014 for my 2009/10 tax year. I contacted AML and they stated that they will be writing to HMRC appealing and asking to freeze any interest on the assessed amount on behalf of all contractors. I wait to see if HMRC agree to this. AML stated that they have never lost a case and their business has actually grown. AML stated HMRC's tactic is to threaten individuals into speaking to them so they can obtain additional (implicating) information that the loan is actually income, so they warm against talking to HMRC direct and send out appeal letters worded by tax lawyers on behalf of the contractor.

My view is that this will go on for as long as HMRC are willing to commit resource /costs (admin, legal, etc) to pursuing AML contactors until it becomes uneconomic. So i think the threat will continue for a few years yet as there's probably significant sums to be gain by HMRC.
I think its safer to continue to allow AML to liaise with HMRC and appeal. The big question is what happens if AML stop trading, then were are in trouble unless we can get hold of the tax lawyers who worked for them.

Does anyone know if the 5 year rule investigating tax return applies in this instance?
Would HMRC loose the ability to keeping sending out notices after 5 years?

Once HMRC has opened an investigation I think they can keep it open for a very long time. If they do not progress on investigate then in 5 yrs time you can request to close the case but they can deny and continue to keep it open.

If AML implemented the EBT correctly, current understanding of Law is on AML side. HMRC is using all tactics to scare people but reference non EBT cases. Many of the provider are no more around and thus HMRC is able to scare people and get them to pay. EBT were all legal until 6 Dec 10 PROVIDED IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY.

[malvolio]

Once HMRC has opened an investigation I think they can keep it open for a very long time. If they do not progress on investigate then in 5 yrs time you can request to close the case but they can deny and continue to keep it open.

If AML implemented the EBT correctly, current understanding of Law is on AML side. HMRC is using all tactics to scare people but reference non EBT cases. Many of the provider are no more around and thus HMRC is able to scare people and get them to pay. EBT were all legal until 6 Dec 10 PROVIDED IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY.

EBTs are still legal. It's whether or not you are entitled to the benefits that arise from using one that's in dispute. All that happened in 2010 was that HMRC reserved the right to investigate each case in due course and not within the usual one year window.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

EBT were all legal until 6 Dec 10 PROVIDED IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY.

I presume you mean 9th Dec 2010, when the disguised remuneration legislation was announced and the anti-forestalling provisions took effect from.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget-update...x/tiin2675.pdf

[kincaide]

The "provided they were implemented correctly" sentence is the key here. It appears HMRC are more than happy to take any EBT to court, and many individuals simply cannot afford to do this, and are boxed into paying up - as the costs of going to court, the ongoing interest, and then any extra penalties *if* you end up losing are too high.

You are lucky in the sense that AML are still willing to stand up and represent you. A number of schemes have since headed for the hills, leaving the users minus the fees they paid, plus a hefty tax bill for every year they used the scheme.

[NIUK]

I received the letter on the 13th but was out the country and I only opened it last friday, I've since contacted AML and faxed them the letter over as requested hoping they've time to lodge an appeal before my 13th deadline. Currently i believe it's in their best interest to fight our case whilst they're still operating, they also told me they've grown as a company and are not looking to fold... but it looks like HMRC have settled their sights more firmly on AML just recently, so i guess things may change now.

I'm also curious to know if anybody has had any success with their appeals with AML or other EBT's or if anybody could let me know the duration this has been going on for them so i can try to put some sort of time frame on this?

I was also wondering if anybody has any inclination if bankruptcy would right off Tax debts? Not something I'd do lightly but may be required. [Gulp]

[roadstar]

I received the letter on the 13th but was out the country and I only opened it last friday, I've since contacted AML and faxed them the letter over as requested hoping they've time to lodge an appeal before my 13th deadline. Currently i believe it's in their best interest to fight our case whilst they're still operating, they also told me they've grown as a company and are not looking to fold... but it looks like HMRC have settled their sights more firmly on AML just recently, so i guess things may change now.

I'm also curious to know if anybody has had any success with their appeals with AML or other EBT's or if anybody could let me know the duration this has been going on for them so i can try to put some sort of time frame on this?

I was also wondering if anybody has any inclination if bankruptcy would right off Tax debts? Not something I'd do lightly but may be required. [Gulp]

Hi NIUK, do you know if they responded yet given your deadline is today? Did they send you any confirmation that its sent?

I called them asking the same and all you get is the standard "we will respond". It's annoying because you can't be sure if they actually do respond in time.