Settlement deadline 30th September 2020

[Delendog]

10% off the loan amount is a good result.
were you classed as self employed under the scheme,
i had a few years where i was classed as self employed and then scheme was changed to make me employee. Im wondering if the expenses request can be applied to both scheme types.

Many thanks

Employed

[webberg]

10% off the loan amount is a good result.
were you classed as self employed under the scheme,
i had a few years where i was classed as self employed and then scheme was changed to make me employee. Im wondering if the expenses request can be applied to both scheme types.

Many thanks

That is wrong on so many levels.

You are never "classed" as self employed. Whether you were self employed or not is a question of facts.

How did you work, who supervised, who was taking financial risk, etc. Case law over the last 70 years has pondered this question and the only given is that it was NEVER your option to decide if you were self employed or an employee.

Changing the way a scheme works is NEVER going to switch you from self employed to employed. More likely it was cheaper for the scheme to claim employment rather than self employment and that was what drove the claimed - but almost certainly incorrect - classification.

[lowpaidworker]

That is wrong on so many levels.

You are never "classed" as self employed. Whether you were self employed or not is a question of facts.

How did you work, who supervised, who was taking financial risk, etc. Case law over the last 70 years has pondered this question and the only given is that it was NEVER your option to decide if you were self employed or an employee.

Changing the way a scheme works is NEVER going to switch you from self employed to employed. More likely it was cheaper for the scheme to claim employment rather than self employment and that was what drove the claimed - but almost certainly incorrect - classification.

Good point. I was classed as employed in very loose terms. I had an employment contract but interesting never once met my manager no was there any structure to this firm. Lets be honest the whole thing was a farse that any court would see through.

Anyway back to the question I am hearing that HMRC have allowed a 10% expense claim against your loan. Given they have allowed this for one person they must treat everyone the same. I sent a letter to my case worker who said yes send us proof. Ive gone back and said i dont have statements that far back and given the timescales can i apply 10%. Waiting to hear back

[webberg]

Anyway back to the question I am hearing that HMRC have allowed a 10% expense claim against your loan. Given they have allowed this for one person they must treat everyone the same. I sent a letter to my case worker who said yes send us proof. Ive gone back and said i dont have statements that far back and given the timescales can i apply 10%. Waiting to hear back

Incorrect.

HMRC can and does refuse to accept as precedent comments made by individual line officers which depart from official policy.

HMRC will simply say that the officer was incorrect, acting outside their remit and that this is an internal issue of training.

Attempts in the past to have a Court force HMRC to adopt what any particular employee has said or written, have generally failed.

[lowpaidworker]

With the deadline looming fast to settle anyone else having problems getting HMRC to agree a settlement amount.

My settlement amount so far.... omits two years. I have asked them and all they say I can confirm that all diclosed liabilities relating to DR are included in the settlement. Any DR not disclosed and therefore not included may still be subject to the loan charge. Then they asked me to contact another team to check if I need to declare them on the 18/19 tax return.

Yet the two years missing are the same employer for years that they have included and also I did the declaration of all my loans years last year like everyone had to? Ive asked them if my settlement is full and final for all years up to and including the last year and they swerve the question. Its incredible frustrating.

[lowpaidworker]

Incorrect.

HMRC can and does refuse to accept as precedent comments made by individual line officers which depart from official policy.

HMRC will simply say that the officer was incorrect, acting outside their remit and that this is an internal issue of training.

Attempts in the past to have a Court force HMRC to adopt what any particular employee has said or written, have generally failed.

I thought there was someting in their charter about treating all tax payers the same but thank you for the warning !!

[eek]

I thought there was someting in their charter about treating all tax payers the same but thank you for the warning !!

Nope, "We’ll treat you even-handedly" does not mean they treat everyone the same, the second bit of the sentence gives you the context "We’ll treat you even-handedly, with courtesy and respect. We’ll listen to your concerns and answer your questions clearly. We’ll presume that you’re telling us the truth, unless we have good reason to think otherwise."

Which means that they will accept you weren't aware it was a scheme but there is nothing to say that different people won't get different offers based on their circumstances.

[webberg]

With the deadline looming fast to settle anyone else having problems getting HMRC to agree a settlement amount.

My settlement amount so far.... omits two years. I have asked them and all they say I can confirm that all diclosed liabilities relating to DR are included in the settlement. Any DR not disclosed and therefore not included may still be subject to the loan charge. Then they asked me to contact another team to check if I need to declare them on the 18/19 tax return.

Yet the two years missing are the same employer for years that they have included and also I did the declaration of all my loans years last year like everyone had to? Ive asked them if my settlement is full and final for all years up to and including the last year and they swerve the question. Its incredible frustrating.

Be very clear.

It is for YOU to ensure that YOU have sent HMRC accurate information which includes ALL years and values.

Information from sources that are not YOU but which you think HMRC is in possession of, it NOT meeting YOUR obligations.

[lowpaidworker]

Be very clear.

It is for YOU to ensure that YOU have sent HMRC accurate information which includes ALL years and values.

Information from sources that are not YOU but which you think HMRC is in possession of, it NOT meeting YOUR obligations.

Yes I declared all the loans last year as per the requirement from HMRC to do this. I have registered to settle a long while back. They said they would calculate my settlement. Then it went quiet despite me asking them. Next I get a letter saying we are waiting the oucome of the Morse review and will write to you by July to let you know if how this impacts you.

Then mid August a settlement calculation that did not include two of years even though it was the same Umbrella. So they have all the info but I dont understand why they havent included the missing two years. I have asked them if these years are effectively closed which again they have not answered.

My issue is i agree to a settlement and a TTP for which is a life changing amounts only for them to come back requesting more. I have spoken to a few others and they are in the same boat with HMRC not including certain years but then not explaining why they are not included despite HMRC being told about all the outstanding loan amounts.

[webberg]

Yes I declared all the loans last year as per the requirement from HMRC to do this.

Then mid August a settlement calculation that did not include two of years even though it was the same Umbrella. Irrelevant. Might be same umbrella but the scheme and its promoter might be entirely different. A defence of non disclosure based on this reasoning would, in my opinion, fail. .

You need to be chasing them NOW