Loan charge review - Government response is here

[LoanChump]

Called the HMRC after Xmas

Nobody knows the answer to the above.

We are all waiting on the proposed new legislation.

I actually called the helpline on 27/12/2019 and was told that I did not need to declare them on the SA for Jan 31st, but i would need to declare them by 30th Sept 2020 if i had not settled.

To clairfy that[/U] I'm not suggesting this for everyones circumstance: I submitted my SA already (in June) and specifically asked what 'I' needed to do. i was instructed by 'Paul' that I didnt need to do anything as long as i amended before 30/09/2020...if i had not yet settled. He put me on hold to confirm with his colleagues.

He also told me that despite me signing the agreement, for the figure they had calculated, in May....(and confirmed they received it in May but haven't actioned it) i would need to sign it again as the wording has since changed.
New letters to be issued in Jan

[NeedTheSunshine]

Hi all,

Long story shortish.. I got asked by HMRC to complete a return for 2012/13 in 2017. I remembered I had a call from HMRC in 2013 asking how long I worked for redstone for. After fighting I eventually settled in 2018 but when I settled I placed 3 dots in front of my signature to indicate I was signing under duress and if I wished the signature meant nothing, it was accepted by them and fast forward to today and I am looking forward to calling the "avoidance team..." and argue the point that because of the phone call in 2013 asking about redstone they knew there was a possibility I had been duped and was working under a loan scheme but they chose not to do anything probably until they put a team together to collect the money.

Good luck everyone, keep fighting the fight.

I don't understand this. Surely you did have to complete a Self Assessment for 2012/13? It's your responsibility as a tax payer to submit a return if you need to. Hence it being called Self Assessment. I imagine that HMRC would argue that the phone call was a reminder to do do a tax return. Do a SAR and find out.

[bugle33]

Reply

I don't understand this. Surely you did have to complete a Self Assessment for 2012/13? It's your responsibility as a tax payer to submit a return if you need to. Hence it being called Self Assessment. I imagine that HMRC would argue that the phone call was a reminder to do do a tax return. Do a SAR and find out.

No self assessment needed for that year, I called them and asked them if I needed to complete one and they said no, I only worked for Bedouin and an umbrella company that year. As I say I had a contract from Bedouin stating I was employed on salary so it appeared like any other umbrella company. I worked away from home that year as well and incurred loads of expenses they wouldn't let me have. The phone call following that tax year was just an inquiry how long I worked for Bedouin (Redstone) for.

[webberg]

No self assessment needed for that year, I called them and asked them if I needed to complete one and they said no, I only worked for Bedouin and an umbrella company that year. As I say I had a contract from Bedouin stating I was employed on salary so it appeared like any other umbrella company. I worked away from home that year as well and incurred loads of expenses they wouldn't let me have. The phone call following that tax year was just an inquiry how long I worked for Bedouin (Redstone) for.

I would observe that the above is a very unusual pattern.

Do you have any of that in writing from HMRC?

[greenacres]

Pre Dec 9 2010 loan charge refunds for those who have settled

For those in the situation like myself who have already settled with HMRC in order to prevent the loan charge arising.

I have just spoken to my tax office regarding clarification on a refund for my pre Dec 2010 loan amounts.

They are under the impression that I did not voluntarily pay ! Even though I paid purely to stop the loan charge arising based on an HMRC letter sent outlining the differing amounts if I paid early or waited for the loan charge to hit.

Hence they do not consider I will receive any refund.

They say the years were under review and the settlement was not voluntary restitution !

It seems what is clear to me is being interpreted differently by HMRC.

Disguised remuneration: guidance following the outcome of the independent loan charge review - GOV.UK

[dammit chloe]

For those in the situation like myself who have already settled with HMRC in order to prevent the loan charge arising.

I have just spoken to my tax office regarding clarification on a refund for my pre Dec 2010 loan amounts.

They are under the impression that I did not voluntarily pay ! Even though I paid purely to stop the loan charge arising based on an HMRC letter sent outlining the differing amounts if I paid early or waited for the loan charge to hit.

Hence they do not consider I will receive any refund.

They say the years were under review and the settlement was not voluntary restitution !

It seems what is clear to me is being interpreted differently by HMRC.

Disguised remuneration: guidance following the outcome of the independent loan charge review - GOV.UK

I believe it is is only considered voluntary restitution when the years are closed as they can't actually enforce any settlement.

When the years are open then it would likely be only settlement.

Now whether that makes a difference or not I don't know. Pre-2010 the LC does not apply but open enquiries are still open enquiries and can be chased.

[greenacres]

I believe it is is only considered voluntary restitution when the years are closed as they can't actually enforce any settlement.

When the years are open then it would likely be only settlement.

Now whether that makes a difference or not I don't know. Pre-2010 the LC does not apply but open enquiries are still open enquiries and can be chased.

If that is the case then virtually no one who has settled and paid will receive a refund !

[greenacres]

I believe it is is only considered voluntary restitution when the years are closed as they can't actually enforce any settlement.

When the years are open then it would likely be only settlement.

Now whether that makes a difference or not I don't know. Pre-2010 the LC does not apply but open enquiries are still open enquiries and can be chased.

That would seem to lose their distinction between the two scenarios

1. the loan charge no longer applies (loans made before 9 December 2010)
2. loans were made before 6 April 2016, the avoidance scheme use was fully disclosed to HMRC and the department did not take action (for example, opening an enquiry)

All would fall under the second ! I would think very few would get refunds in that case.

[DealorNoDeal]

My understanding is that only closed* pre-2010 years will be refunded.

* years where HMRC didn't open an enquiry or raise an assessment under discovery

[NotSoCompliant]

I believe it is is only considered voluntary restitution when the years are closed as they can't actually enforce any settlement.

When the years are open then it would likely be only settlement.

Now whether that makes a difference or not I don't know. Pre-2010 the LC does not apply but open enquiries are still open enquiries and can be chased.

I believe that HMRC guidance in the LC review stipulates that a voluntary restitution payment can be identified where no interest has been charged as part of settlement (ie open year would have interest changed as part of settlement but closed year would not have had interest charged as part of settlement and was considered voluntary restitution)