Loan charge review - report and outcome

[AtW]

Incorrect, and unfortunately sounds like your swallowing all the HMRC propaganda about us all living Wolf of Wall Street lives.

In some cases (mine) the difference between this scheme - and withdrawing dividends, expenses, salary and pension was minimal. I think from the £20k I saved over 2 years, I now have a tax bill of almost £100k + interest. Not including the £30k+ i'd paid in promoter fees, and more for the divi tax, NI, etc.

My benefit was ir35 protection, or so i thought. Not financial. I'm being told not to pay the £20k i saved, but to pay the £100k + interest. How much is the promoter stumping up who took 15%? Zero.

IR35 “protection” is presumably avoiding paying tax on your earnings, sounds pretty financial benefit to me.

I find it very difficult to believe you paid 30k to save just 20k, that would be very irrational

[Dmac]

IR35 “protection” is presumably avoiding paying tax on your earnings, sounds pretty financial benefit to me.

I find it very difficult to believe you paid 30k to save just 20k, that would be very irrational

WRONG. IR35 "protection" is so a contractor can continue to contract for one end client.

When you consider the benefits of PAYE (pension, paid holidays, sick pay, death in service, gym, season ticket loan, bike-for-work scheme, employee rights, etc) paying slightly less tax is more than offset by the absence of these benefits

[AtW]

WRONG. IR35 "protection" is so a contractor can continue to contract for one end client.

A contractor can continue to work for one end client perfectly fine since IR35 does not require stopping such work.

[stonehenge]

Most of these schemes claimed a retention rate (net of tax & fees) ranging from 85% to 90%. They even got the nickname on contractor forums as the "90% schemes".

They achieved this by paying a small salary (eg. minimum wage), which attracted hardly any tax & nics. The rest was tax free loans.

Mitigation of IR35 may have been the motivation for some users but no doubt others were lured by the enhanced take home.

[here4beer]

IR35 “protection” is presumably avoiding paying tax on your earnings, sounds pretty financial benefit to me.

IR35 “protection” is presumably avoiding paying tax on your earnings, sounds pretty financial benefit to me.

I find it very difficult to believe you paid 30k to save just 20k, that would be very irrational

It was for protection on a certain/unique project. Luckily, my very recent time on the scheme counts for less than 20% of the time I've been contracting. As another poster said, the IR35 just covers a whole range.

No - after their £30k in fees, I was about £20k better off. I'm not going to calculate exact numbers, simply because it'll depress me even more.

[webberg]

This thread is being sidelined.

All of the above views have merit and validity, but the issue here is whether the review upon which so many have pinned hopes, has delivered any of those expectations.

My view is clear - it has not.

My view is that it was always a sop to Parliament and that HMT and HMRC were never serious about making changes.

So outside of the inevitable legal actions that will arrive, what can be done?

It may be that one of the MPs manages to obtain some sort of debate in Parliament. If the last one is anything to go by, HMT out up a shill (John Glen) who trotted out the same old same old and aside from heating the halls of Westminster nothing was achieved other than to put some pressure on Government which may have led to the concession of a review.

There is also the danger of course that any debates will be removed from the Parliamentary calendar at short notice if our elected representatives wish to give the rest of Europe another episode of the comedy/horror show that is Brexit.

We have tried to report MPs for - at least - misleading Parliament but nobody is interested. We have tried reporting ministers to their accountable person (the PM) and have had no response.

We are frustrated at every turn by a system designed to allow the Westminster village to run the country according to their values and not the opinions of tens of thousands.

We are open to ideas.

[stonehenge]

We are open to ideas.

Find a Conservative MP who will table an amendment to the 2019 Finance Bill. Eg. to make the LC only apply from 2016 onwards (not 1999).

NTRT did this in 2013 to try and get Section 58 Finance Act 2008 amended. Steve Baker (Con) tabled the amendment. It didn't succeed but an amendment might fair better now.

Here is a transcript of the debate in the 2013 Finance Bill Committee which is worth a quick read.
New Clause 1 - Abolition of retrospective application of section 58(4) of the Finance Act 2008: 20 Jun 2013: Public Bill Committees - TheyWorkForYou

The No To Retro Tax (NTRT) campaign was mentioned several times during the debate.

[dammit chloe]

Find a Conservative MP who will table an amendment to the forthcoming Finance Bill. Eg. to make the LC only apply from 2016 onwards (not 1999).

NTRT did this in 2013 to try and get Section 58 Finance Act 2008 amended. Steve Baker (Con) tabled the amendment. It didn't succeed but this might fair better now.

Here is a transcript of the debate in the 2013 Finance Bill Committee which is worth a quick read.
New Clause 1 - Abolition of retrospective application of section 58(4) of the Finance Act 2008: 20 Jun 2013: Public Bill Committees - TheyWorkForYou

I am sure we could find the MP. How we get it into a Finance Bill is another matter. Legal amendments were blocked the last time hence we could only get the NC26 amendment. LCAG tried for more but the anything more aggressive was blocked. It's a all a game to a lot of these MPs.

[stonehenge]

I am sure we could find the MP. How we get it into a Finance Bill is another matter. Legal amendments were blocked the last time hence we could only get the NC26 amendment. LCAG tried for more but the anything more aggressive was blocked. It's a all a game to a lot of these MPs.

I wonder how NTRT managed it? Their NC1 was a law changing amendment.

[WalterWhite]

I wonder how NTRT managed it? Their NC1 was a law changing amendment.

Does Donkey Rhubarb still post on here? He would be best positioned to answer this