Winchester Contracts Letter - I received Today

[hudson]

For legacy schemes pre-April 2011, a P11d was provided by the scheme operator who was also your employer paying you a minimum wage. On the P11d, it is stated that the loan had been discharged at the end of that tax year.

Can this be used as evidence that the loans have been written off? Do we need to buy another piece of paper from these snake-oil salesmen?

The P11d went to HMRC also, so effectively you have made them aware that the loans have been written off at the end of the tax year.

[piebaps]

For legacy schemes pre-April 2011, a P11d was provided by the scheme operator who was also your employer paying you a minimum wage. On the P11d, it is stated that the loan had been discharged at the end of that tax year.

Can this be used as evidence that the loans have been written off? Do we need to buy another piece of paper from these snake-oil salesmen?

The P11d went to HMRC also, so effectively you have made them aware that the loans have been written off at the end of the tax year.

See webberg's post #20 - its a pretty comprehensive summary.

[webberg]

For legacy schemes pre-April 2011, a P11d was provided by the scheme operator who was also your employer paying you a minimum wage. On the P11d, it is stated that the loan had been discharged at the end of that tax year.

Can this be used as evidence that the loans have been written off? Do we need to buy another piece of paper from these snake-oil salesmen?

The P11d went to HMRC also, so effectively you have made them aware that the loans have been written off at the end of the tax year.

The P11D is a statement from an employer to HMRC. It is not YOU telling HMRC anything and they are not obliged to take any notice of it.

The loan was written off? Do you have any evidence other than the P11D which is notoriously inaccurate at the best of times.

Do not rely upon "effectively". Either you have proof of something or you do not.

You have no proof that the loan was repaid. Just a statement. You cannot point to your bank account and show the repayment being made.

[Contractor1996]

First of all, why on earth is anyone still using these companies post 2011, let alone 2016 or now! Crazy.

My advice would be to deal with HMRC directly and forget about Winchester - don't contact them, terminate all ideas about paying an admin fee and 5% of loan fee. They are only after more money from you and are not interested in helping.

Cooperate with HMRC and go ahead with a settlement offer. Compare the settlement with potential liabilities in LC next year and make your decision (settlement will be cheaper unless you haven't worked this year). Pay up (lump sum and over time) and get on with your lives.

That's what I've done and I have saved another fortune in fees, stress and I found HMRC quite amicable to deal with.

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I agree with the above, I settled with HMRC and they were very good and helpful. I am getting hounded by info trust helpline and there emails are badly composed and inaccurate. The HMRC are satisfied I have settled all my debts and that no IHT is due. Surely in a court of law if they took me there a judge would see an illegal anti avoidance scheme is trying to get money from a person who has settled his tax obligations on income, it cant be income and a loan surely. So I have paid tax on my income, its not a loan as they wrongly describe in their sham trust deed.

[webberg]

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I agree with the above, I settled with HMRC and they were very good and helpful. I am getting hounded by info trust helpline and there emails are badly composed and inaccurate. The HMRC are satisfied I have settled all my debts and that no IHT is due. Surely in a court of law if they took me there a judge would see an illegal anti avoidance scheme is trying to get money from a person who has settled his tax obligations on income, it cant be income and a loan surely. So I have paid tax on my income, its not a loan as they wrongly describe in their sham trust deed.

You need to look at the discussions in these threads.

Tax issues are decided by reference to tax law.

Loan issues are probably decided by reference to contract law.

Trust issues are decided by reference to trust law.

It is entirely possible for a payment of money to be treated as income for tax purposes, but a loan for contract law purposes.

So in short, it can be income and a loan.

Whether HMRC think you have satisfied your loan liabilities is irrelevant. That are not party to the loan agreement and have NO INFLUENCE.

(I consider that HMRC is deliberately misleading people when they promise to "exit you from avoidance". That they cannot do. They take money of you for tax allegedly due, but cannot force the lender to write off or forgive the loan. That is entirely beyond their legal reach).

[Contractor1996]

They sent me this today, I'm already settling with HMRC. And they want the loans to be repaid! - No Chance.

2 — imgbb.com

1 — imgbb.com

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I agree and I am not repaying a loan as its not a loan, I settled and as far as im concerned my scheme was a miss sold disguised remuneration scheme and all my payments I received where income, I paid tax and penalty interest and the HMRC are happy my affairs are up to date be it tainted now.

I have been hassled by Trust Helpline and they want me to settle loans, It cant be a loan and income its one or the other.

If you don't settle and go the loan route you will pay eventually... good luck with that option, I found the HMRC useful and fair once you speak with the senior most guys.

[dammit chloe]

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I agree and I am not repaying a loan as its not a loan, I settled and as far as im concerned my scheme was a miss sold disguised remuneration scheme and all my payments I received where income, I paid tax and penalty interest and the HMRC are happy my affairs are up to date be it tainted now.

I have been hassled by Trust Helpline and they want me to settle loans, It cant be a loan and income its one or the other.

If you don't settle and go the loan route you will pay eventually... good luck with that option, I found the HMRC useful and fair once you speak with the senior most guys.

Which dept of HMRC do you work for? Or do you work for BI?

[Contractor1996]

I am already in the process of settling with HMRC. My loan was around �6k. The Trust helpline (I don't trust them) is looking after Winchester. They are asking for �250 admin fee. And 5% of the loan for the deed of realease. When I spoke to HMRC all they said is I would have to pay tax owed. They do not want the deed of release.

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Agreed the HMRC laughed at the idea of a deed of release, the so called deed that represents a scheme which can be broadly be described as an income trust, example being a type of disguised remuneration scheme, it aims to divert income from a business into a trust. The trust then loans it back to the business owners, their families, or both, claiming that no Income Tax or National Insurance Contributions (NICs) arise.

I paid my tax with the HMRC and they laughed when I called them loans and mentioned the agreement I had, that trust agreement wont stand up in any court, it was a non compliant tax avoidance scheme aka disguised remuneration.

[Contractor1996]

Which dept of HMRC do you work for? Or do you work for BI?

I was a sucker who goy caught up with these dodgy guys selling schemes about 5 years ago. I am trying to help people through my experiences as I settled with the HMRC... Cheers..

[Contractor1996]

You need to look at the discussions in these threads.

Tax issues are decided by reference to tax law.

Loan issues are probably decided by reference to contract law.

Trust issues are decided by reference to trust law.

It is entirely possible for a payment of money to be treated as income for tax purposes, but a loan for contract law purposes.

So in short, it can be income and a loan.

Whether HMRC think you have satisfied your loan liabilities is irrelevant. That are not party to the loan agreement and have NO INFLUENCE.

(I consider that HMRC is deliberately misleading people when they promise to "exit you from avoidance". That they cannot do. They take money of you for tax allegedly due, but cannot force the lender to write off or forgive the loan. That is entirely beyond their legal reach).

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A trust operating anti avoidance schemes cant hide behind the law...

When a contract is illegal it cannot be enforced by a court or tribunal. A contract that exists for an illegal purpose is void and will not be enforced by the courts. So a contract to evade tax will be illegal and unenforceable.

This is my lawyers stance, you can disagree all good ... cheers

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