Confused as *****!

[basilspinone]

ok, so where do I find a wiki that simply explains this whole repayment/tax/loan charge mess?

I simply want to know the following.....how the hell do you work out what HMRC want/expect you/your Ltd to pay and if I attempt to settle now, will I have to pay more in 2019???

and if I don't do the CLSO by 31st May, will I be hit with charges in 2019?

#HeadSpinning!!

[phil@pmtc]

ok, so where do I find a wiki that simply explains this whole repayment/tax/loan charge mess?

I simply want to know the following.....how the hell do you work out what HMRC want/expect you/your Ltd to pay and if I attempt to settle now, will I have to pay more in 2019???

and if I don't do the CLSO by 31st May, will I be hit with charges in 2019?

#HeadSpinning!!

Sent you a pm. Feel free to call and will go through your options .

V short answer is that settlement would mean it’s dealt with and no charge would arise in April 2019

[kentishlad]

Likewise... same as the original poster... I cant get the figure Id have to base this one in order to register.
Knox/SP Management wont give me the details, and refer me to PTS (part of the same circus) to pursue SP Management for the info

[Nicolette]

Anyone got information from AML yet?

Likewise... same as the original poster... I cant get the figure Id have to base this one in order to register.
Knox/SP Management wont give me the details, and refer me to PTS (part of the same circus) to pursue SP Management for the info

I’m having trouble getting the information I need to settle from
AML. They’ve passed me
To PTS - I’m worried PTS will be charging extortionate admin fees to get the information I need to her through this (namely - outstanding loan amounts).

[webberg]

I’m having trouble getting the information I need to settle from
AML. They’ve passed me
To PTS - I’m worried PTS will be charging extortionate admin fees to get the information I need to her through this (namely - outstanding loan amounts).

You could look at your bank statements?

[GUD]

You could look at your bank statements?

I had same problem with PTS. You can get loan details upto 5 April 2016 from Knox Trust. However, from 6 April 2016 seems to be a problem. PTS today asked £250+vat to provide loan details from this period onwards. When enquired from Knox Trust, I was advised that PTS should not be charging any amount to provide loan details.

Yes, you can get the loan details from bank statement. I am not sure if it will create problems later on if HMRC receive different amount of total loan from SP or Knox Trust as compared to the loan amount declared by the contractor.

[PINKPANTHER]

I had same problem with PTS. You can get loan details upto 5 April 2016 from Knox Trust. However, from 6 April 2016 seems to be a problem. PTS today asked £250+vat to provide loan details from this period onwards. When enquired from Knox Trust, I was advised that PTS should not be charging any amount to provide loan details.

Yes, you can get the loan details from bank statement. I am not sure if it will create problems later on if HMRC receive different amount of total loan from SP or Knox Trust as compared to the loan amount declared by the contractor.

Hello! We are more and more here and there is no point to explain why .I've read a few threads and posts and still don't get it,I might be hard of head .Now I try to put myself together ,take a breath and figure out what my life is going to be. 1.I contacted today Smartpay ,in order to find out my figures ,they asked all my details like it was the first time when we speak.2They promise to come back to me in a couple of days .I can expect to be passed to PTS.3.My estimated figures are roughly 400k ,from 2014-2018 ,I'm sick and burned out because of work (60-70 hours /week) and idea to start over again working 5-6 years more here just to pay loan or taxes ,besides, the good times with high rates have gone.
3 I still don't understand what is more convenient and cost less : settlement or wait and see for LC 2019. ..If one cannot pay the entire outstanding loans charge in other conditions than settled by HRMC ,what options would be: Tribunal? Court ?Bankruptcy...? Is it possible that the Tax Tribunal can set affordable installments outside of HRMC settlement.? Runaway ,especially awaiting Brexit.
4.I still have a nebulousness in my head , but enough for now ...
5.Any advise and contact from the experts will be much appreciated.Especially advise settlement versus LC .Loan return NO.
6.Thank you!

[webberg]

The following is a brief summary of the position - designed for those who have recently become aware of their position. It necessarily therefore excludes some of the finer points.

HMRC believe that the vast majority of the arrangements used by contractors since 2000 are in fact tax avoidance schemes.

Tax avoidance is not illegal but can be challenged by HMRC as to whether they achieve their aim of less tax being paid.

HMRC claim that they have made their position on this issue well known. Accepting that those who make a living by advising on tax etc did know about this stance, I suspect that the rest of the population does not regularly update themselves on HMRC policy.

HMRC believe that in the majority of instances, the payments made to individuals should be treated as taxable income of the year in which the payment was made.

HMRC further believe that the liability to pay that tax ALWAYS rests with the individual.

There have been cases taken to Tribunal/Court in this space. The more important one is the Murray Group case, known as the Rangers case, which was published in July 2017.

This case upheld HMRC's view that payments made to individuals for being employees, was employment income and taxable, regardless of which party received the cash. (in that instance a trust which subsequently loaned money to the individuals).

Whilst HMRC like to deny it, Lord Hodge in that case was also very clear that the primary responsibility for deducting the tax lay with the PAYE system.

HMRC has since been issuing law, retrospective in effect if not in semantics, which seeks to deny the PAYE elements and to impose a tax in 2018/19 on all outstanding loan balances. This is hedged with meaningless exemptions - such as repaying the loan to avoid the charge, only to get hit by a separate and different charge - and a denial of a credit for tax that is correctly due from another party (an employer?)

HMRC say that despite this 2019 charge, they will pursue the liability in earlier years and there are number of provisions which deal with how tax paid in 2019 can be used to credit those earlier years.

Your obligations are to report the value of loans caught by the rules to your employer. (Not a current employer, but the employer who made or arranged the loan).

If that employer is no longer around, then you have to report direct to HMRC no later than the end of September next year.

If you do not have the exact numbers, you can estimate these. Perhaps look at your bank statements.

HMRC will raise a charge to be paid 31/1/20.

It is possible that you might get time to pay that charge. Realistically, anything beyond 24 months is hard yards.

I hope this help.

[Loan Ranger]

HMRC will raise a charge to be paid 31/1/20.

Should it be possible to appeal against it, and request postponement of payment, as you would with a discovery assessment or closure notice?

[webberg]

Should it be possible to appeal against it, and request postponement of payment, as you would with a discovery assessment or closure notice?

Good question.

HMRC seem to be leaning towards a situation in which the declaration of the loans is "part of the SATR". There are some timing issues there as the SATR is not due until 31/1/20 which is when the charge is meant to be paid. However the declaration is due no later than 30/9/19.

If that is the case however, then everybody gets a "statement" of their SA position and if that shows tax due, it's referred to DMB.

Leaving the loan detail off the return or missing the deadline (and ignoring penalties for doing so) may not help if HMRC use their powers to "amend the return and issue a statement".

Appealing a statement is not really possible.

Appealing a statement arising from an HMRC amendment might be.

A proper assessment usually is subject to appeal.

Clear as mud I'm afraid.