Loan Charge Action Group

[KK1]

Except their argument is that people were not adhering to the then current tax laws by taking advantage of a concession that was never intended to be applied to salary income (EBTs at base were meant to safeguard funds paid from already-taxed income). Obviously HMG has some (in fact, quite a lot of) blame here for not making the scope of the rules properly clear, but that does not alter the basic position, sadly.

OK, people may not have known that at the time since they were following apparently qualified advice, but that won't change HMG's position.

It is not just the 'not making things clear,', they are complicit in the past and the present in formulating this entrapment. They have failed to chase up what is actually on the tax returns, they failed to close the gap, failed to stop the unscrupulous promoters from continuing to run, have only given them DOTAS reference (therefore they know they are in operations) and allowed QC to legitimize them. More people are still falling into this nonsense and shambles and will lose homes, businesses and cause breakup of families. That is not what I voted a government to do for me.

[QCApproved]

the whole exercise is counter conservative so one understands your disappointment KK1 - it's on the Corbyn spectrum

[Loan Ranger]

I think it's official HMRC policy now to screw things up for a decade or so and then get the Government to bail them out.

I suspect HMRC have known for quite a long time that something like a loan charge would be required to clean up their mess.

The same thing happened with APNs. HMRC asked for and got DOTAS in 2004. After 10 years of failing to get on top of schemes they ask for APNs.

[Laxmi]

It's no easy task for anyone to come up with a meaningful analogy for something as unprecedented and unexpected as this Finance Bill and the subsequent pain (both financial and emotional) that it's causing those affected.

I tend to think that when governments (of any hue) decide on a course of action such as this and and are actually allowed to get away with it (due to the fact that, in a political sense, they deduce the numbers involved are 'manageable'), then it's the thin end of an ever-expanding wedge. Once they've harvested more funds for the Treasury and squeezed this particular community dry, they'll try something else. Some bright spark in HMG may even suggest that the basic rate of income tax wasn't quite high enough during certain years and the higher level bracket should have been brought down a tad to capture a bit more revenue from a few more hard-working souls. They'll rub their hands together in eager anticipation of the next windfall of cash that will aid and abet their stage-managed attempts to persuade the public that it's all being done 'in their interest'. There might be an initial outcry, but the individual vs the machine is never a fair fight.

On the basis of this legislation, what's to stop them ? It doesn't matter what they have ever said in the past about maintaining trust in the system by never considering retrospective taxation, for it is sadly now an unnerving reality. And can therefore be used again. And probably again. Tactically, they are winning hands-down and when power is this absolute, everyone is in their sights regardless of whether or not they believe their tax affairs are currently within the bounds of the law as it stands today. Or not, it would unfortunately seem.

Very defeatist. That's the problem with people in the UK, people have lost the fact that they have the power (Divide & conquer, is Govmts game), not the government. We know the UK gov doesn't work for the people. Maybe the people should work for the people and fight this, rather than rolling over playing dead. The LAG have dedicated their time and effort, in reaching out to inform people, because many don't know whats coming, the reason why they don't even know is because HMRC are not telling them, as they know the more people that know what HMRC is intending to do, the more people will wake up and hopefully, many brave souls, will fight THE SYSTEM.

[jrock]

Very defeatist. That's the problem with people in the UK, people have lost the fact that they have the power (Divide & conquer, is Govmts game), not the government. We know the UK gov doesn't work for the people. Maybe the people should work for the people and fight this, rather than rolling over playing dead. The LAG have dedicated their time and effort, in reaching out to inform people, because many don't know whats coming, the reason why they don't even know is because HMRC are not telling them, as they know the more people that know what HMRC is intending to do, the more people will wake up and hopefully, many brave souls, will fight THE SYSTEM.

Most of us that got into these schemes did so on official advise at the time in question as they were deemed legal. We are in HMG and HMRC’s view small fry and irrelevant.

The power of the people no longer exists in my opinion as a significant movement hasn’t been established and if it ever does it’s too late anyway. Payments have to be made now!

I’ve always believed this country’s legal system was fair until now. With retrospective taxation and changing the law to suit the needs of MPs I’ve lost faith. If I could leave this county I would it’s going down hill fast!

[catesby]

Very defeatist. That's the problem with people in the UK, people have lost the fact that they have the power (Divide & conquer, is Govmts game), not the government. We know the UK gov doesn't work for the people. Maybe the people should work for the people and fight this, rather than rolling over playing dead. The LAG have dedicated their time and effort, in reaching out to inform people, because many don't know whats coming, the reason why they don't even know is because HMRC are not telling them, as they know the more people that know what HMRC is intending to do, the more people will wake up and hopefully, many brave souls, will fight THE SYSTEM.

Despite what you might think, this was never intended to convey a defeatist attitude or view. It was merely my two-cents worth of input to the stark reality of what everyone affected by this opportunistic manipulation of law is facing. The advice and guidance from posters on on this forum (with a couple of notable exceptions) has been the one piece of solid ground I've found to help deal with the fallout, and as a result of those individuals and their own informed views on the matter, I am just about to join BG to be a small part of their wider challenge.

I wholeheartedly endorse your sentiment of fighting back - but as a relatively small group of people in the broader scheme of things across this broke(n) country, with a filtered media lens on anything which rightfully challenges the government of the day (whomever is in charge) in any way, it's bl**dy hard because it's always a rigged game controlled by those at the helm of power, who engineer and orchestrate the cogs of their big Orwellian machine and do their utmost to chase down the soft targets, oh-so-conveniently avoiding those who have the kind of resources to cause them serious problems in return.

Well before this debacle emerged, I had (and continue to have) zero faith in any party or politician - it is a self-serving enterprise and has never been anything else. When politicians and bureaucrats claim the moral high ground on any subject (because they are astute enough to know that there remain a gullible majority who keep on and on falling for the bullsh*t), the only appropriate reaction is disdain - because there is nowt more hypocritical on the face of this earth. My faith is therefore reserved for those on here who have the knowledge, determination and belief that maybe, with sufficient argument and support, it might be possible to fight on this occasion. So I'm in. With at least a little hope.

[DeadDOTAS]

In case you haven't seen it yet, the Loan Charge Action Group's (LCAG) motion on Loan Charge and RetroTax is now live on the UK Parliament website:
https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2017-19/1239

Please reach out to your individual MPs and ask them to support/sponsor/sign.
Takes a couple of minutes electronically and can make all the difference. Thank you!

(And to answer some of the earlier questions re. LCAG's activities, this is what it does, it "actions" .)


https://www.hmrcloancharge.info/

[jrock]

In case you haven't seen it yet, the Loan Charge Action Group's (LCAG) motion on Loan Charge and RetroTax is now live on the UK Parliament website:
https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2017-19/1239

Please reach out to your individual MPs and ask them to support/sponsor/sign.
Takes a couple of minutes electronically and can make all the difference. Thank you!

(And to answer some of the earlier questions re. LCAG's activities, this is what it does, it "actions" .)


https://www.hmrcloancharge.info/

Just sent it to my MP.

If you want to find your MP you can use the following website https://www.mysociety.org/wehelpyou/who-is-your-mp/.

If we all do this it could have some effect

[esemi]

MP letter

Here is what I just sent to my MP. If anyone wants to use/edit it feel free...

================================
I'm not sure if you are aware but I was looking for your thoughts on the HMRC 2019 Loan Charge legislation.

Here are details of the legislation...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/disguise...he-loan-charge

As a summary, HMRC are aggressively back dating tax bills for some contractors, freelancers and agency workers, including social workers, supply teachers and bank and locum nurses and doctors who used a Trust payment scheme since 1999.
While it can be debated if these schemes were acceptable in terms of tax take they were inside the tax legislation of the time.

The new legislation is requiring these people to come up with vast amounts to retrospectively pay HMRC.

I know a number of people who this is affecting. They are talking about the possibility of losing housing, relationship stress, and even bankruptcy. As many of these people work in the finance sector bankruptcy would cease their ability to work in the industry.
I agree that the tax take from these people may have been low but the way HMRC are now going about this seems wrong and unfair.

Here is a message board showing peoples distress and thoughts...
https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...an-charge.html


A number of MPs are starting to work against this...
https://www.parliament.uk/business/p...ession=2017-19

================================

[demby]

Here is what I just sent to my MP. If anyone wants to use/edit it feel free...

================================
I'm not sure if you are aware but I was looking for your thoughts on the HMRC 2019 Loan Charge legislation.

Here are details of the legislation...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/disguise...he-loan-charge

As a summary, HMRC are aggressively back dating tax bills for some contractors, freelancers and agency workers, including social workers, supply teachers and bank and locum nurses and doctors who used a Trust payment scheme since 1999.
While it can be debated if these schemes were acceptable in terms of tax take they were inside the tax legislation of the time.

The new legislation is requiring these people to come up with vast amounts to retrospectively pay HMRC.

I know a number of people who this is affecting. They are talking about the possibility of losing housing, relationship stress, and even bankruptcy. As many of these people work in the finance sector bankruptcy would cease their ability to work in the industry.
I agree that the tax take from these people may have been low but the way HMRC are now going about this seems wrong and unfair.

Here is a message board showing peoples distress and thoughts...
https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...an-charge.html


A number of MPs are starting to work against this...
https://www.parliament.uk/business/p...ession=2017-19

================================

Good template - i will be definitely be using it, thanks