Finance Bill 2017-18 V HMRC DR Settlement Terms

[ConfusedEasily]

If this is the case and the closed years from CLSO 1 are not excluded from the charge, I'm wondering why HMRC have not written to those affected asking them to make the voluntary payment for the closed years. From their point of view it would be better trying to get the money in now than wait for a couple of years ?

You are kidding? They aren't going to be writing to everyone. Why should they? They haven't written to me inviting me to make a voluntary contribution. Under the 2019 loan charge, the onus is on me to supply the information.

Perhaps they will write to everyone, but I doubt it.

[ConfusedEasily]

You are not helping the argument, those guys have documents written by HMRC stating they are settled.

You are just what winding them up. They have been through enough pain as it is.

They have documents stating they are settled for the years on the settlement. They do not have documents stating that years that were closed are exempt from the 2019 charge, because the 2019 charge did not exist at the time.

Please get real advice, and get something in writing from HMRC.

[jbeer]

You are kidding? They aren't going to be writing to everyone. Why should they? They haven't written to me inviting me to make a voluntary contribution. Under the 2019 loan charge, the onus is on me to supply the information.

Perhaps they will write to everyone, but I doubt it.

I didn't say write to everyone! I said those affected under clso1 where there were closed years. Why would they. Thought I made that clear and kind of obvious, because they would prefer the money now.

[BrilloPad]

I didn't say write to everyone! I said those affected under clso1 where there were closed years. Why would they. Thought I made that clear and kind of obvious, because they would prefer the money now.

HMRC is like the hydra. One entity, multiple heads. One head may be satified. But not the whole entity.

[BrownOwl]

I didn't say write to everyone! I said those affected under clso1 where there were closed years. Why would they. Thought I made that clear and kind of obvious, because they would prefer the money now.

Why would HMRC want the money now when they can wait until 2019 and probably get more (likely to be at higher tax rate) under threat of penalties?

[washed up contractor]

Why would HMRC want the money now when they can wait until 2019 and probably get more (likely to be at higher tax rate) under threat of penalties?

Bird in the hand and all that (although I quite like rumagining around in a bit of 'bush'!). Their targets for clawing money in are set per tax year not what they may get in the next tax year.

[pimpernell]

They have documents stating they are settled for the years on the settlement. They do not have documents stating that years that were closed are exempt from the 2019 charge, because the 2019 charge did not exist at the time.

Please get real advice, and get something in writing from HMRC.

I do. Settled means settled, and under clso1 that means all years in the scheme settled up to April 2011 and includes closed years. Once you settle for a scheme you are not affected by 2019 lc. That’s what settlement means and is why HMRC are offering settlement - a way out of 2019 otherwise why would they bother. Settlement is per scheme. Personally I was only on one and have settled it. If you were in more than one you’d need more than one settlement is my understanding. Settlement is income tax, ni, promoters fees everything except IHT. So I’m settled - financially and emotionally.

[pimpernell]

Finance Bill 2017-18 V HMRC DR Settlement Terms

I think they want the money now and are offering settlement terms because they’ll have guaranteed revenue. They probably know that some people will want to litigate and that’s a balls ache for them because it could be years before they get the income. But i gave to say I wouldn’t bet against them in any litigation. And it will take someone with a whole lot bigger cajones than I’ve got to go through the angst and hold out to the end.

[BrownOwl]

I think they want the money now and are offering settlement terms because they’ll have guaranteed revenue. They probably know that some people will want to litigate and that’s a balls ache for them because it could be years before they get the income. But i gave to say I wouldn’t bet against them in any litigation. And it will take someone with a whole lot bigger cajones than I’ve got to go through the angst and hold out to the end.

Indeed, the 2019 loan charge will be challenged as it's full of unfairness. Paying up voluntarily is good for HMRC as they don't have to refund voluntary payments.

HMRC might choose to litigate some more schemes outside of the 2019 charge but that could also backfire on them so they'll have to choose very wisely.

[ConfusedEasily]

I do. Settled means settled, and under clso1 that means all years in the scheme settled up to April 2011 and includes closed years. Once you settle for a scheme you are not affected by 2019 lc. That’s what settlement means and is why HMRC are offering settlement - a way out of 2019 otherwise why would they bother. Settlement is per scheme. Personally I was only on one and have settled it. If you were in more than one you’d need more than one settlement is my understanding. Settlement is income tax, ni, promoters fees everything except IHT. So I’m settled - financially and emotionally.

Ok - but can I ask WHEN your settlement was? Just out of interest - was it in the past few months? Or was it three years ago?

You don't settle for a *scheme* you settle for years.

If anyone is in this situation, take your settlement agreement to a legal tax specialist and get an opinion. Unless your closed years are explicitly mentioned, then HMRC will expect them to fall under the 2019 reporting legislation.