Finance Bill 2017-18 V HMRC DR Settlement Terms

[demby]

Or if you can stomach it, file for bankruptcy.
Based on figures I’ve seen for a handful of contractors HMRC would receive around 20% of the money owed and the trust would get around 80%.

After 12 months bankruptcy term ends and you can collect your 80% of money to restart your life.

Self imposed bankruptcy has the potential to wipe clear all HMRC debt, all trust debt and after 1 year you can collect 80% of your assets/wealth via your trustees.

Might not be suitable for everyone but it’s a real option if 12 months hurt and 20% (on average) loss of wealth is acceptable.

If you have a loan of £300,000 the tax will be approx £150,000 - so HMRC would get 33% of your assets. This assumes no other loans though

[Iliketax]

If you have a loan of £300,000 the tax will be approx £150,000 - so HMRC would get 33% of your assets. This assumes no other loans though

Bankruptcy law is not my area but I think you'd have to make sure that the trustee signs the claim form so that the debt is valid. So they'd have to still exist and be prepared to cooperate.

It may be that someone challenges that the loan is not enforceable or the official receiver wants to take legal advice and so those fees will eat up your assets.

The trustee will want to charge you for doing stuff, like filling in forms, paying you and a responsibility fee for looking after the assets. My guess is that with the original loan scheme that was covered by the promoter's fees (and there were no liquid assets in the trust to pay it). Would the trustee now take fees of (say) 3% per year because they now have liquid assets?

There would also be income tax on the money when it comes out of the trust (to the extent no tax was actually paid to HMRC as part of the bankruptcy).

If the IHT position is not sorted by the time it gets the assets, will the trustee feel obliged to pay the IHT if HMRC come to them asking for it?

My biggest issue though would actually be trusting the trustee.

[stonehenge]

My biggest issue though would actually be trusting the trustee.

Me too.

Some folks in my scheme have already paid back 10% of the loans. Chances of them ever seeing a penny of that again are virtually zero.

We were fools to join these schemes but you'd be an even bigger fool to trust the people who got you into this mess in the first place.

[regron]

And another trust is now demanding 40% of the loans people received be paid back !!!

[webberg]

We have spent some considerable time in researching trusts, lenders and the destination of loans.

Aside from one instance where we've been told that the trust and the loans have been "resolved" (we still await details some 18 months later), the loans exist even where the trustee has changed.

Often the trustee is not the original entity. Often there appears to be little connection between the original promoters and the current trustee. More often however the maneuvers of assets between trusts/trustees are not designed to fill you with confidence.

[iheartclso2]

Bankruptcy law is not my area but I think you'd have to make sure that the trustee signs the claim form so that the debt is valid. So they'd have to still exist and be prepared to cooperate.

It may be that someone challenges that the loan is not enforceable or the official receiver wants to take legal advice and so those fees will eat up your assets.

The trustee will want to charge you for doing stuff, like filling in forms, paying you and a responsibility fee for looking after the assets. My guess is that with the original loan scheme that was covered by the promoter's fees (and there were no liquid assets in the trust to pay it). Would the trustee now take fees of (say) 3% per year because they now have liquid assets?

There would also be income tax on the money when it comes out of the trust (to the extent no tax was actually paid to HMRC as part of the bankruptcy).

If the IHT position is not sorted by the time it gets the assets, will the trustee feel obliged to pay the IHT if HMRC come to them asking for it?

My biggest issue though would actually be trusting the trustee.

Thank you. I see bankrupcy law not youre area but Some much UNCERATINTY makes me FEARFUL and DOUBT
Trust will NOT exist NOT coperatate AND charge fees AND obliged iht AND legal fees AND charge income tax all UNCERTAINTY/

CLSO2 will means NO legal fees NO 3% fees HRMC will FIX the trust and NO trust fess and NO charges ALL CERTAIN just tax.
The CLSO2 HRMC kindly offering to takeg tax and EVERYTHING fixed that is WORSE worse so we move on with life. NO UNCERTIANTY NO double tax just pay the iht and single tax and NO trust the trustee problems left/
NO FEAR NO DOUBT with CLOS2.

[webberg]

Thank you. I see bankrupcy law not youre area but Some much UNCERATINTY makes me FEARFUL and DOUBT
Trust will NOT exist NOT coperatate AND charge fees AND obliged iht AND legal fees AND charge income tax all UNCERTAINTY/

CLSO2 will means NO legal fees NO 3% fees HRMC will FIX the trust and NO trust fess and NO charges ALL CERTAIN just tax.
The CLSO2 HRMC kindly offering to takeg tax and EVERYTHING fixed that is WORSE worse so we move on with life. NO UNCERTIANTY NO double tax just pay the iht and single tax and NO trust the trustee problems left/
NO FEAR NO DOUBT with CLOS2.

Just remember that resolving the tax issues DOES NOT mean that the loan disappears.

That has to be dealt with.

HMRC is clear that if this happens in certain ways, further liability can arise.

[regron]

Thank you. I see bankrupcy law not youre area but Some much UNCERATINTY makes me FEARFUL and DOUBT
Trust will NOT exist NOT coperatate AND charge fees AND obliged iht AND legal fees AND charge income tax all UNCERTAINTY/

CLSO2 will means NO legal fees NO 3% fees HRMC will FIX the trust and NO trust fess and NO charges ALL CERTAIN just tax.
The CLSO2 HRMC kindly offering to takeg tax and EVERYTHING fixed that is WORSE worse so we move on with life. NO UNCERTIANTY NO double tax just pay the iht and single tax and NO trust the trustee problems left/
NO FEAR NO DOUBT with CLOS2.

Really ? Have a read up on a company called behavioural insights !

[demby]

Really ? Have a read up on a company called behavioural insights !

Behavioural insights - looks like yet another "money well spent" project.

If you live and have the right to work in Guatemala you may be interested to know that they are currently trying to fill the Guatemala Project Coordinator role - paying up to £180 per day for the right candidate.

Excellent reports coming out of this team including
"A review of optimism bias, planning fallacy, sunk cost bias and groupthink in project delivery and organisational decision making"
"An Exploration of Potential Behavioural Biases in Project Delivery in the Department for Transport"
"Behavioural Economics Guide – Vol 1 Public Policy – Mexican Institute for Behavioural Economics"
"Reducing Mobile Phone Theft and Improving Security – Paper 2"

[burnside]

Thank you. I see bankrupcy law not youre area but Some much UNCERATINTY makes me FEARFUL and DOUBT
Trust will NOT exist NOT coperatate AND charge fees AND obliged iht AND legal fees AND charge income tax all UNCERTAINTY/

CLSO2 will means NO legal fees NO 3% fees HRMC will FIX the trust and NO trust fess and NO charges ALL CERTAIN just tax.
The CLSO2 HRMC kindly offering to takeg tax and EVERYTHING fixed that is WORSE worse so we move on with life. NO UNCERTIANTY NO double tax just pay the iht and single tax and NO trust the trustee problems left/
NO FEAR NO DOUBT with CLOS2.

If you know that you have no way of paying any bill, is it even worth going down the CLS02 route, surely that would just mean that your failure to pay will come sooner and so would the impending bankruptcy? The only benefit, if you can call it that, of going down the CLS02 route is that your bankruptcy will end sooner and you can go about trying to repair the car crash of your life caused by ruthless scheme promoters, experts who gave bad advise, HMRC that can make up the rules as they go along and make changes retrospectively, media and public who will show no sympathy and greedy and/or gullible contractors.