New Finance Bill 2017-18

[BrilloPad]

Iliketax has been providing people with clear-eyed advice. There is no point sugar-coating the pill.

Indeed.

I still hope something will come up.

I thought NTRT was dead in the water. Then one email turned it all around.

[ChimpMaster]

Indeed.

I still hope something will come up.

I thought NTRT was dead in the water. Then one email turned it all around.

What do you mean BP?

[BrilloPad]

What do you mean BP?

The story was repeated on CUK. However no-one will talk publicly about it......

[ChimpMaster]

The story was repeated on CUK. However no-one will talk publicly about it......

I dunno, I'm losing track, too much going on. I've heard time travel can really confuse the mind , which is what seems to have happened to HMRC's bods.

[RajaStyle]

I think i'm also losing track.

I was talking to someone who was telling me if you voluntarily settle now that means it stops them opening up any other schemes you were involved in back til 1999 ? i.e. only voluntarily settle against the scheme they opened an enquiry in (year in question and other years within that scheme)

If you don't do this they can open every scheme you were involved in back til 1999 in 2019 loan charge (assuming you were in more than one scheme)

My thoughts are they can do this regardless whether you settle or not, settling just protects the charges against the years you settled on ... hopefully someone can clarify this for me.

[ChimpMaster]

I think i'm also losing track.

I was talking to someone who was telling me if you voluntarily settle now that means it stops them opening up any other schemes you were involved in back til 1999 ? i.e. only voluntarily settle against the scheme they opened an enquiry in (year in question and other years within that scheme)

If you don't do this they can open every scheme you were involved in back til 1999 in 2019 loan charge (assuming you were in more than one scheme)

My thoughts are they can do this regardless whether you settle or not, settling just protects the charges against the years you settled on ... hopefully someone can clarify this for me.

To the bit in bold above - this is not correct.

If you settle under CLSO2:
1. You pay up all tax/interest etc for the years that HMRC have protected (open years).
2. You pay tax via Voluntary Restitution for the years that HMRC did not protect (closed and beyond 6 year enquiry window).

Both points are regardless of the schemes themselves. And both back as far as 1999.

Even after you go through CLSO2, you will have to declare all info on the 2019 Loan Charge, but you won't have a charge to pay because you would have paid via the settlement.

I'd love to be corrected on the above, because it all seems extreme and draconian to be charged on closed years that are beyond the 6 year window, especially when loans had been declared on P11Ds and BIK paid on self assessments.

[RajaStyle]

I guess the only time it will become concrete clearer is when HMRC implement it and hit us with it. Up til that point everyone including specialist Tax advisers are just speculating and preparing for the unknown. Love to be corrected with some clarity.

[regron]

I guess the only time it will become concrete clearer is when HMRC implement it and hit us with it. Up til that point everyone including specialist Tax advisers are just speculating and preparing for the unknown. Love to be corrected with some clarity.

That's the problem, when dealing with HMRC there is no clarity. All part of their behavioural insights and Nudge tactics.

[webberg]

I guess the only time it will become concrete clearer is when HMRC implement it and hit us with it. Up til that point everyone including specialist Tax advisers are just speculating and preparing for the unknown. Love to be corrected with some clarity.

I think it's pretty clear.

You can take HMRC's settlement terms. Essentially that is treat loans from all years as income, pay tax, perhaps NIC, interest. Disregard closed years (i.e. years with no enquiries). Pay IHT on some assessment of facts only HMRC is aware of. Unless YOU - not HMRC - arrange for the loans to be written off, then possibly pay more tax in the future.

You can respond to HMRC enquiries and in October 2019, declare the loans you had and await an assessment and tax due in January 2020. HMRC will not close their enquiries at that time and will continue to seek tax in the year the loans were drawn. If they eventually prove that position, the DR charge 2019 will reduce and any tax paid then will be used against the earlier liability.

You can join a group going to Tribunal. There are several already lined up and perhaps more in the making. If you win, happy days. If you lose, tax will be due. Going to Supreme Court will need around 4 to 5 years. Litigation can be expensive. If one of the cases goes to Court and loses in the meantime, you may well get a Follower Notice depending on how close your scheme is to that which lost in Tribunal. A Follower Notice means that you will pay the tax.

You can join a Group looking for an answer. I'm aware of at least three.

So the answers are out there.

Do your research.
Understand your situation.
Take advice on anything you do not understand.

[stonehenge]

You can take HMRC's settlement terms. Essentially that is treat loans from all years as income, pay tax, perhaps NIC, interest. Disregard closed years (i.e. years with no enquiries).

I thought CLSO2 was

closed years - tax only (restitution)
open years - tax, employees NICs, interest