Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

[hungouttodry]

Regarding making a large pension contribution - if you do then I'd expect HMRC will not give you a TTP for what remains. If years are open HMRC will come back for the difference.

TTP = Time To Pay??

I assumed that if you are accepting the loan charge then it would be due for payment in January 2020. Is TTP supposed to be an option with LC19?

A question I also have - if you make a contribution to pension based on the 2019LC income - pension contribution has to be made prior to April 6th 2019. What if the LC is defeated after this date - would HMRC then come after you with a 55% tax on any pension contribution over the earnings limit?

I hadn't considered this exact scenario. My fears were that I would somehow find a very large sum to pay to my pension then find that I needed to make another contribution in another year and not have the funds to do this. Whilst it's remotely possible that I could make this contribution, there is no possibility of me doing this twice. But what you suggest is an equally terrible scenario.

I think that such a contribution would need to be left until April before committing to it.

[webberg]

A question I also have - if you make a contribution to pension based on the 2019LC income - pension contribution has to be made prior to April 6th 2019. What if the LC is defeated after this date - would HMRC then come after you with a 55% tax on any pension contribution over the earnings limit?

Without a change in law, I think the answer is "yes".

[webberg]

TTP = Time To Pay??

I assumed that if you are accepting the loan charge then it would be due for payment in January 2020. Is TTP supposed to be an option with LC19?

I think that such a contribution would need to be left until April before committing to it.

TTP can be applied for against any tax liability. May not be granted, but it is not limited to particular situations.

The comment is correct in that if you have the resources to find a large pension contribution, HMRC might have expected you to use those funds to pay the tax and therefore be reluctant to extend TTP.

[Bombus]

Accounts

Have any of you (former GM) ever received a statement of your overdrawn capital account from them? I genuinely have no idea what the value is. I've two letters I can find (including the 28th March one) regarding payments against it from my profit share.

Because of this I genuinely don't know what I'd declare to HMRC if I wanted to!

Also, since GM have been wound up, is it possible the loan account has been wound up with it? Optimistic I know :-P

Yes I have had figures from them some time ago and supplied to HMRC who never provided any statement showing what tax if any was owed. Now I have received a Loan charge letter. They had the figures a couple of years ago and if they thought I owed anything then surely they would have sent me an APN?

[nucastle]

Yes I have had figures from them some time ago and supplied to HMRC who never provided any statement showing what tax if any was owed. Now I have received a Loan charge letter. They had the figures a couple of years ago and if they thought I owed anything then surely they would have sent me an APN?

They weren't DOTAS schemes, and as such, aren't applicable for APNs.

You are of course on the hook for the loan charge, discovery assessments and any settlements (you opt into).

[chilli9767]

Glen May Default template letters

I am also in the same boat and have dealt with enquiries from HMRC using the default template letters that Glen May have provided. Would like to keep in touch with this group on any forums incl WhatsApp.

JC

Hi, would it be possible for you forward the letters - just been contacted by HMRC but don't have letters

Plus any advice on dealing with HMRC would be great

[chilli9767]

Glen May Default template letters

Admin - Can we both get PM rights please.

Guys what happened with this - just received letter from HMRC could do with some advice

[administrator]

Guys what happened with this - just received letter from HMRC could do with some advice

Sorry, missed this one. chilli9767 and ITmark - you both now have PM access.

[Bombus]

Glen May

First of all Glen May was not a 'Scheme' as some in this thread have referred to it as. It was an LLP operating from what I understand within the legal framework and as at that time relevant Tax laws. Yes, it appears there was a loophole that they exploited. I am not convinced that HMRC can get away with claiming that this was another 'loan' scheme as surely there has to be some commitment and legal signature to the terms of any loans? I did not acknowledge or sign up to any loans.

We will not know for sure unless a test case is brought before the courts but for my own account HMRC had all the information they asked for a couple of years ago and if they had a case then they would have brought it to a tribunal or having brought another similar case to tribunal and won regarding the operation of an LLP in this manner then presented me with a bill. But the law here is more complicated and I suspect that is why they are hoping people cave in and pay up.

Bombus

[webberg]

First of all Glen May was not a 'Scheme' as some in this thread have referred to it as. It was an LLP operating from what I understand within the legal framework and as at that time relevant Tax laws. Yes, it appears there was a loophole that they exploited. I am not convinced that HMRC can get away with claiming that this was another 'loan' scheme as surely there has to be some commitment and legal signature to the terms of any loans? I did not acknowledge or sign up to any loans.

We will not know for sure unless a test case is brought before the courts but for my own account HMRC had all the information they asked for a couple of years ago and if they had a case then they would have brought it to a tribunal or having brought another similar case to tribunal and won regarding the operation of an LLP in this manner then presented me with a bill. But the law here is more complicated and I suspect that is why they are hoping people cave in and pay up.

Bombus

Much as I admire the optimism above, you'll find that HMRC do regard this as a scheme. That's a word that HMRC has deliberately loaded with negative connotations, but at the end of the day, regardless of semantics, you had money in a legal form that was claimed to be non taxable.

Moreover, it was money you were obliged to repay. It's hard to escape a conclusion that money given to you that is repayable, is not a loan?

As to bringing a case, I agree that HMRC should have done that sooner. On average from opening enquiry to first case hearing, I'd be allowing 8 to 10 years.

That does not prevent you from taking the case. You can apply to the Tribunal today and get the ball rolling. If you do, you can expect lots of delaying tactics from HMRC, lots of moves from them designed to increase costs and complexity and a general dragging of heels until they are ready.

However, the Tribunal system is designed to be accessible to YOU.

Sitting back and waiting from HMRC can be done of course, but don't complain about the time it takes, when YOU can control the timetable.