Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

[Telco7676]

Silly question may be, but why is an overseas LLP so worried about the 2019 changes as they do not need to comply? Clearly HMRC are coming to us individually as UK tax payers. I don't believe they have ever contacted the overseas LLP.

Or is that the LLP may be liable for the tax based on how it was set-up?

Presumably you'll need to be armed with a statement of your current capital overdrawn account balance, which one would assume should be easily obtained from your LLP, as part of the 2019 loan charge declaration. I can see the logic in paying the tax as you are getting these 'profit allocations', but I'm guessing that something more official *cough* than just taking LLP overdrawn account payments and reducing them by the profit allocation amounts, is not the same as being provided proper balances from the LLP.

My fear is that HMRC simply state that despite paying this tax in good faith, that they need more proof than what is being stated to them. Obviously playing worse case scenario here, but hey, we are living in those kind of times.

I've never had any proper accounts, or statements, despite being promised them.

[dog]

Yes, I don't know if procorre are reading this or not. I was being naive that organisations care about what people say of them. Guess procorre don't care.

Why do procorre have offices all over the world? Do they actually exist? Has anyone here been to any?

[Smurfburger]

Silly question may be, but why is an overseas LLP so worried about the 2019 changes as they do not need to comply? Clearly HMRC are coming to us individually as UK tax payers. I don't believe they have ever contacted the overseas LLP.

Or is that the LLP may be liable for the tax based on how it was set-up?

Overseas LLPs do have to comply.

It is not the loan charge that they are worried about. There is a separate legislation relating to LLPs and their deferral of profit share allocation. That runs alongside the loan charge.

[Smurfburger]

Presumably you'll need to be armed with a statement of your current capital overdrawn account balance, which one would assume should be easily obtained from your LLP, as part of the 2019 loan charge declaration. I can see the logic in paying the tax as you are getting these 'profit allocations', but I'm guessing that something more official *cough* than just taking LLP overdrawn account payments and reducing them by the profit allocation amounts, is not the same as being provided proper balances from the LLP.

My fear is that HMRC simply state that despite paying this tax in good faith, that they need more proof than what is being stated to them. Obviously playing worse case scenario here, but hey, we are living in those kind of times.

I've never had any proper accounts, or statements, despite being promised them.

I don't think any of us have but Glen May must have to file accounts in Singapore.

[Iliketax]

I don't think any of us have but Glen May must have to file accounts in Singapore.

A quick google shows Glen May LLP has been struck off. The application for striking off was dated 11 August 2017. If you want to spend a little cash, you can find the public documents here: www.tis.bizfile.gov.sg search by name or the UEN T11LL0928L

Why do procorre have offices all over the world? Do they actually exist? Has anyone here been to any?

Another quick Google suggests that the London one is at Regus. One of the products Regus offer is a virtual office. You guys can work out if that's the same elsewhere.

Overseas LLPs do have to comply.

It is not the loan charge that they are worried about. There is a separate legislation relating to LLPs and their deferral of profit share allocation. That runs alongside the loan charge.

The self-employed DR rules apply to the individual, not the LLP.

The mixed partnership rule applied from 6 April 2014. Whether they apply to tax profit deferred after this date will be a question of fact (and you guys probably won't be able to get hold of the right facts.

[Telco7676]

Ok, but how can UK/HMRC introduce legislation that all other countries need to comply with? Surely Singapore would want a say in it?

Overseas LLPs do have to comply.

It is not the loan charge that they are worried about. There is a separate legislation relating to LLPs and their deferral of profit share allocation. That runs alongside the loan charge.

[hungouttodry]

Another victim weighing in

Just joined to try to understand this palaver and how badly it will affect me.

I worked through Aston Mae / Glen May from Jan 2011 to April 2015, sucked in by the promise of less admin and a few quid extra in my pocket. I've made many disastrous financial decisions over the last few years and this is certainly one of them.

I received the penultimate profit share letter the other day, and if I understand it correctly, I'll be expected to pay tax on an extra £67k this year but won't receive anything to pay it from. There's a double whammy here as most of my other income is from residential property and Section 24 will hit me hard here too. I already have almost £50k suspended on appeal on my SA statement from 11/12 and 12/13. I won't be able to pay this either way round as my life has taken a turn for the worse recently in many ways - work is thin on the ground.

I never got involved with Procorre as what they were proposing sounded very dubious. Once I decided that GM was a bad idea I went back to using my Ltd. company instead.

Any pointers of what to do next gratefully accepted. I am struggling to understand the issues.

[Smurfburger]

Just joined to try to understand this palaver and how badly it will affect me.

I worked through Aston Mae / Glen May from Jan 2011 to April 2015, sucked in by the promise of less admin and a few quid extra in my pocket. I've made many disastrous financial decisions over the last few years and this is certainly one of them.

I received the penultimate profit share letter the other day, and if I understand it correctly, I'll be expected to pay tax on an extra £67k this year but won't receive anything to pay it from. There's a double whammy here as most of my other income is from residential property and Section 24 will hit me hard here too. I already have almost £50k suspended on appeal on my SA statement from 11/12 and 12/13. I won't be able to pay this either way round as my life has taken a turn for the worse recently in many ways - work is thin on the ground.

I never got involved with Procorre as what they were proposing sounded very dubious. Once I decided that GM was a bad idea I went back to using my Ltd. company instead.

Any pointers of what to do next gratefully accepted. I am struggling to understand the issues.

I feel your pain. I have been bitten by contractor loan schemes and Glen May LLP.

I did get an email from a senior HMRC representative who stated that Glen May LLP does not seem to be a solution that would be hit by the loan charge.

If you have Notices of Assessment for the Glen May years that are suspended on appeal, paying your tax liability on the declared profit share will hopefully go towards addressing those suspended Notices of Assessment.

HMRC has taken two approaches with Glen May partners that I am aware of. The first is sending out Notices of Assessment. The second, which is what I have had, is to check my returns for the Glen May years and ask lots of questions. I have never been asked to pay any money.

In January 2018, I paid the Glen May tax relating to calendar year 2012. In January 2019, I will pay the tax for the figure on the latest letter, which will be considerable, but at least HMRC will not be able to say no tax has been paid. They may well query the amount.

The two approaches kind of indicates that they might not be certain of their ground. To my knowledge, no Glen May partner has been taken to a tribunal but that's not to say they won't.

If I could turn back the clock and do things differently...

[dog]

I feel your pain. I have been bitten by contractor loan schemes and Glen May LLP.

I did get an email from a senior HMRC representative who stated that Glen May LLP does not seem to be a solution that would be hit by the loan charge.

If you have Notices of Assessment for the Glen May years that are suspended on appeal, paying your tax liability on the declared profit share will hopefully go towards addressing those suspended Notices of Assessment.

HMRC has taken two approaches with Glen May partners that I am aware of. The first is sending out Notices of Assessment. The second, which is what I have had, is to check my returns for the Glen May years and ask lots of questions. I have never been asked to pay any money.

In January 2018, I paid the Glen May tax relating to calendar year 2012. In January 2019, I will pay the tax for the figure on the latest letter, which will be considerable, but at least HMRC will not be able to say no tax has been paid. They may well query the amount.

The two approaches kind of indicates that they might not be certain of their ground. To my knowledge, no Glen May partner has been taken to a tribunal but that's not to say they won't.

If I could turn back the clock and do things differently...

For people who have recently (ie since 6 April 2018) received a GM letter, surely this letter was received in this tax year ie 1819... therefore tax is payable 31 Jan 2020? Not 2019?

[Smurfburger]

For people who have recently (ie since 6 April 2018) received a GM letter, surely this letter was received in this tax year ie 1819... therefore tax is payable 31 Jan 2020? Not 2019?

That is not correct. My letter was dated 28th March but was received after April 6th and so still relates 2017/18 in much the same way as banks send out interest statements, after 6th April, that relate to the previous tax year.