Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

[Smurfburger]

Profit Share Letters from Glen May LLP

Hi,

In late 2016, I got a letter, from Glen May, stating my profit share, of around £25k, for calendar year 2012. The tax on this amount was declared on my 2016/17 self assessment and paid in January of this year (2018).

Today I have had another letter, from Glen May, stating that this is the penultimate financial accounts for Glen May and showing my profit share of almost £90k!! It seems they have rolled possibly three years accounts into the one profit share and so I will have to pay the tax on this amount by the end of January 2019.

That is a large amount to find.

Has anyone else had a similar letter?

[ITmark]

Hi,

In late 2016, I got a letter, from Glen May, stating my profit share, of around £25k, for calendar year 2012. The tax on this amount was declared on my 2016/17 self assessment and paid in January of this year (2018).

Today I have had another letter, from Glen May, stating that this is the penultimate financial accounts for Glen May and showing my profit share of almost £90k!! It seems they have rolled possibly three years accounts into the one profit share and so I will have to pay the tax on this amount by the end of January 2019.

That is a large amount to find.

Has anyone else had a similar letter?

Yes few people have received it, in my opinion it's not worth the paper it's printed on (Glen May one doesn't even have their address / tel numbers on and they've already been struck off). It's just a bit of rear end covering from them. They also (alike Procorre one - as they are the same people) don't mention any particular tax year. I'd get some professional advice and not take their word as it's biased and solely protecting themselves.

[Dell]

Yes few people have received it, in my opinion it's not worth the paper it's printed on (Glen May one doesn't even have their address / tel numbers on and they've already been struck off). It's just a bit of rear end covering from them. They also (alike Procorre one - as they are the same people) don't mention any particular tax year. I'd get some professional advice and not take their word as it's biased and solely protecting themselves.

I have used Glen May and Procorre for a few years and now need an exit plan ASAP... I know people who have received the exact same letter from Glen May for "penultimate accounts" which suggests more are coming... I imagine mine will come in the very near future and then procorre will do the exact same.

I understand what you are saying regarding not been worth the paper it is written on as Aston Mae, Glen May, Procorre, AML, Burnside etc are all pretty much just con men but what is stopping Glen May sending a copy of the letter to HMRC? Friends of mine have had self assessment anti-avoidance enquiry letters in the past and Glen May replied for them declaring exactly what business development funds were paid from the "overdrawn" capital account so HMRC know how much we have taken over the years....

[Telco7676]

Profit Share Letters from Glen May LLP

@ITMark - agree that its not worth the paper its written on regards to Glen May and they are covering their backs, however in 2019 HMRC will have the right to request all LLP's in UK and overseas to declare partner overdrawn capital balances and Glen May has just effectively written this down to zero by declaring a profit share. This now means HMRC will be seeking individuals to declare it. My understanding is that with overseas LLP's HMRC's position has been to tackle it with the individual directly via self assessment challenges so I suspect at some point they will be asking us if we have received a profit share or capital payments that have not been paid back to the LLP.

Would be good to know if anyone else has a different view on this.

[webberg]

First, HMRC does not have the "right" to request details of the overdrawn account. It is YOUR LEGAL OBLIGATION to report. Whether Glen Mat et al do that or not, makes no difference.

Second, hiding details from HMRC is not a recommended strategy.

Third, Why do you continue to beleive anything these people tell you?

Partnership taxation is complicated. We and I'm sure many other advisers, have real problems in reconciling what Glen May claim to have done/be doing and in particular recommending that you put entries into a tax return, long after you have th left the partnership (and Glen May has been gone a long while) is contrary to UK law.

Go and get advice.

[Smurfburger]

Has anyone had their 2012/13 Profit Share Figure from Glen May yet?
Time is running out to get it this tax year - as promised.

Been trying to get a response from them for a few weeks now - NOTHING !!!

Not very reassuring. Not happy, especially since I’m making “payments on account” based on receiving this figure annually.

Come on Glen May, get onto this.

I got a letter, dated 28th March 2018, yesterday, with a huge profit share declared (almost £90k) and so I will have to pay the tax on that by the end of January 2019. Also, I am settling previous loans schemes I used and so have a massive amount of tax to pay. It's going to be a struggle and might have to remortgage.

The letter, from Glen May, states that it is the penultimate financial accounts and, since I paid for calendar year 2012 (Glen May runs Jan to Dec) in January 2018, I suspect this letter relates to 2013, 2014 and 2015 but am trying to get confirmation on that.

I left Glen May in March 2017 and so will have another year and quarter's worth of profit share next year if my assumptions are correct.

[Smurfburger]

1. The charge covers "any form of credit". I think therefore that it would be hard to argue that an ability to overdraw an account would not be a form of credit.

2. The Glen May "profit share" is, in my opinion, a paper exercise that is designed to achieve nothing other than protection for those behind Glen May.

3. Deducting the cost of acquiring a Ltd Co as a trading expense? Not a chance. The Procorre structure you should take to a competent adviser and ask some hard questions of.

When settling my previous use of loan schemes, I was dealing with a very senior person at HMRC. I have an email from him stating that it could be good news for me since they already know the names of schemes that will have the loan charge applied and Glen May was not one of them.

That doesn't mean HMRC will not follow up on existing enquiries into Glen May but, since we have all started to pay tax on the declared profits (I already paid for 2012 in January 2018 and have just received another profit share letter from Glen May that seems to cover multiple years), that must affect the direction any enquiries go in. If we have paid tax on the calculated profit shares, I'm not sure there's a case to answer unless HMRC's query will now be how those figures were arrived at.

[webberg]

I got a letter, dated 28th March 2018, yesterday, with a huge profit share declared (almost £90k) and so I will have to pay the tax on that by the end of January 2019. Also, I am settling previous loans schemes I used and so have a massive amount of tax to pay. It's going to be a struggle and might have to remortgage.

The letter, from Glen May, states that it is the penultimate financial accounts and, since I paid for calendar year 2012 (Glen May runs Jan to Dec) in January 2018, I suspect this letter relates to 2013, 2014 and 2015 but am trying to get confirmation on that.

I left Glen May in March 2017 and so will have another year and quarter's worth of profit share next year if my assumptions are correct.

As a tax adviser, I would struggle to reconcile what you have said above.

Go and get advice from a party that is not connected to Glen May.

[Smurfburger]

First, HMRC does not have the "right" to request details of the overdrawn account. It is YOUR LEGAL OBLIGATION to report. Whether Glen Mat et al do that or not, makes no difference.

Second, hiding details from HMRC is not a recommended strategy.

Third, Why do you continue to beleive anything these people tell you?

Partnership taxation is complicated. We and I'm sure many other advisers, have real problems in reconciling what Glen May claim to have done/be doing and in particular recommending that you put entries into a tax return, long after you have th left the partnership (and Glen May has been gone a long while) is contrary to UK law.

Go and get advice.

Glen May is still operating.

[Smurfburger]

Yes few people have received it, in my opinion it's not worth the paper it's printed on (Glen May one doesn't even have their address / tel numbers on and they've already been struck off). It's just a bit of rear end covering from them. They also (alike Procorre one - as they are the same people) don't mention any particular tax year. I'd get some professional advice and not take their word as it's biased and solely protecting themselves.

Procorre and Glen May are not the same at all. Procorre acquired the Glen May talent but, because of all the interest in Glen May, Procorre has been tarred with the same brush and the Glen May (and others) his acquisition has damaged their reputation.

Yes, a couple of Aston Mae people moved over to Procorre after Glen May was acquired (Steve Smith and Amy) but Procorre is not Glen May and never was. That said, because of all the HMRC attention, I chose to go the umbrella route rather than going to Procorre when Glen May was acquired. My reason for doing so was because I feel that HMRC will not leave you alone unless you're effectively going through a PAYE route. Yes, you might also get dividends but that is more mainstream and less convoluted than these LLPs.

In a recent lengthy conversation with a Procorre accountant, I was told that everything you earn through them is declared each year and that they have not had the same HMRC attention that Glen May did. The reason for that attention was principally because of the deferral of tax payment.

Anyway, I'm not with Procorre and am nothing to do with them but I am confident that they were never anything to do with Glen May, or others under HMRC's spotlight - they simply acquired the businesses and it bit them on the backside badly and damaged their reputation.