Forthcoming General Election - send a message to the Chancellor NOW ...

[dangerouswhensober]

... and the message should be - "Turkeys don't vote for Xmas !!"

I had intended to start this thread in the week before the General Election, but I can't see any reason to delay any further.

I'm one of the many individuals (40,000+) who are being chased for tax on a retrospective basis thanks to the actions of this Government and this Chancellor.

In the previous General Elections during my life-time, I've either voted Conservative or abstained - in other words, I've never actively voted against the Conservatives.

But this election is different. I WILL NOT support a party which is responsible for unfairly persecuting a hard-working, law-abiding section of the community - namely contractors who used totally legal tax-minimisation schemes prior to 2012.

So Mr Osborne (and you too Mr Gauke) understand the following:

(1) I will vote for any party which keeps you out of power for another term - and I sincerely hope that 40,000+ people will do the same thing (and the employees of 10,000+ companies also being chased ...)

(2) I will actively campaign against you and your rotten cash-generating strategies, by telling my story to as many of my friends as possible. (I figure that if 40,000 contracts each persuade three friends to vote anti-Tory, that will be 150,000+ votes that the the Torys don't get - not a massive number, but certainly enough to sway the balance against the Tories in a few marginal seats).

Don't get me wrong - I'm not advocating that anyone should vote Labour regardless to keep the Tories out - the Labour Party has already made big noises about how they will chase 'tax avoiders and evaders' if they are returned to power. (But it seems to me that Labour proposals are mainly targeted against large companies like Starbucks, not individuals ...)

From a stretegic point of view, IMO our best election outcome is a 'hung' parliament - because a weak Government (either Labour or Tory) will have a problem pushing through any legislation (including any further draconian powers for HMRC).

I therefore suggest that all persecuted contractors should vote in their own constituencies for any minority candidate who has a chance of either taking the seat or unseating the current Tory MP.

I know that some will regard this post as negative, even nihilistic - and I'm expecting to get some very negative feed-back.

But let me just re-iterate: "Turkeys don't vote for Xmas".

Also - I'm not a great believer in "turning the other cheek" - if you have been persecuted unfairly (as we have, by the Osbourne/Gauke/Homer axis), now is the time to get some revenge.

(BTW - Osborne had a majority of 14,487 at the last election, but he was preceded by Martin Bell, who was an Independent - so his seat may not be as safe as it looks. Gauke had a majority of 14,920 - but his position as Financial Secretary to the Treatury might be put at risk by any kind of coalition).

Fire away people - shoot me down in flames ...:-)

[TykeMerc]

May I point out that not only was the situation you're currently dealing with started under a Labour Government with a clear majority, but all of the political parties see taking on tax avoidance as some type of Holy Grail (as well as a cause for jihad) to help win votes.

If you honestly think that your treatment under any future UK Government is likely to change then quite honestly you should lay off the crack pipe, it's rotting your brain.

[Mug27]

May I point out that not only was the situation you're currently dealing with started under a Labour Government with a clear majority, but all of the political parties see taking on tax avoidance as some type of Holy Grail (as well as a cause for jihad) to help win votes.

If you honestly think that your treatment under any future UK Government is likely to change then quite honestly you should lay off the crack pipe, it's rotting your brain.

Completely agree. Tax avoiders and paedophiles are the two groups that everyone can vent their spleen on without being accused of a hate crime and what great headines it makes. Whichever bunch of arse wipes get in, this is always going to be there now so use your vote on the policies that differentiate the parties not the ones they'll all follow.

[squirrel]

Absolutely agree with all posts in this thread and get it entirely but as I'm completely fooked regardless of who gets in I'm with DWS on this one, Anyone But Tories. They allowed this sh1t to get through on their watch, I am blaming them. Oh and because they've also fooked me with Higher Income Child Beneift Charge on someone else's kids!

David Cameron does not deserve to be the figurehead for this country. Neither does Miliband for that matter.

Am I allowed to say that? Last time I mentioned it might be time for a radical overhaul of the political system on these threads someone kindly pointed out that I should count myself lucky that we don't live in the kind of country that shoots people if you disagree with the state. That was nice of them :-)

[webberg]

As somebody who has had a career in tax for close to 40 years, I have had to divorce my personal political views from the effect that the various administrations over this period have created in my working day. My professional opinion is that the political parties engaged in the present election all have similar policies towards "avoidance".

That policy is to make "avoidance" mean a very wide range of things and to punish all those who indulged in the past or now. This brings cash to the Exchequer and votes to the politicians. The number of past and present "avoiders" is not that high in absolute terms. The number of people in PAYE schemes where it's much harder to avoid a high effective rate is very high.

My opinion is therefore that although 150,000 seems a lot, it's not. Registered voters in the UK are around 46m. So say 3%. Enough to make a difference in marginals if concentrated but they're not.

I admire and respect the enthusiasm (or rage driven energy) behind the proposal but I think you need to select an achievable outcome, put in place a mechanism to get there and then fuel the process with your anger.

Achievable outcome might be a one off amnesty at a sensible compromise figure (i.e. basic rate tax on alleged income, no interest, no penalty).

Mechanism might be a mix of political pressure (threat from thousands of bankruptcies, personal stories, adverse press, social media campaigns), alternative technical and legal analysis, careful selection of cases to advance/delay.

All of the above needs one thing - COMMITMENT.

It needs a driving force that lasts beyond this election and probably through the next. It needs organising, funding and leadership. It needs to learn the lessons of history that successful campaigns have taught and avoid the errors of those that failed. It needs membership. It must develop working relationships with the media and be smart in its countering of HMRC/HMT/HMG spinning of situations.

It also needs to be REALISTIC.

Contractors who used EBT's or loans in various forms have been targeted and short of HMG intervention, make no mistake, will pay. If the current crop of cases fail, others will be brought. You can guarantee that some of the copycat schemes that you saw once the initial plans seemed to work, are not as well executed as they should be.

The aim should therefore be to make that payment as low as possible.

This will not be a tale of the sword of truth and integrity defeating the chameleon hydra in a final epic battle.

This will be hard, frustrating, infuriating, two steps forward, one back, dealing with capricious and faceless officials and time consuming, all prevading task which will gain you friends and respect in your community but approbation in the tabloid headlines. Be prepared to be personally attacked and to have the goalposts moved.

As I said, I admire the energy and conviction BUT give this some careful thought.

[StrengthInNumbers]

I will vote libdem just to have a hung parliament. More divided they are better.

[webberg]

Absolutely agree with all posts in this thread and get it entirely but as I'm completely fooked regardless of who gets in I'm with DWS on this one, Anyone But Tories. They allowed this sh1t to get through on their watch, I am blaming them. Oh and because they've also fooked me with Higher Income Child Beneift Charge on someone else's kids!

David Cameron does not deserve to be the figurehead for this country. Neither does Miliband for that matter.

Am I allowed to say that? Last time I mentioned it might be time for a radical overhaul of the political system on these threads someone kindly pointed out that I should count myself lucky that we don't live in the kind of country that shoots people if you disagree with the state. That was nice of them :-)

I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it.

[webberg]

I will vote libdem just to have a hung parliament. More divided they are better.

You think a minority Government or another coalition will make much difference?

Such administrations could make life much harder.

If a minority Government says "I want to increase benefits by taking money from tax avoiders" or "I'll fund military rehab centres from fines for bank malpractice" or "let's ban the use of husband and wife companies to pay for an NIC reduction" what are their chances of being voted down?

All the main parties have similar objectives here and will not lose votes by being tough. No minority party or coalition partner will vote against that.

[StrengthInNumbers]

Fair point. My should not vote😁

[LandRover]

I think the Conservatives have really surprised many on how they have acted towards freelancers and contractors over the last 5 years. I would have expected what has happened from a Labour government, after all they brought about IR35 and so began the nightmare for many...

Osborne & Gaulke have gone about this without any thought to fairness and the rule of law that has been always enshrined in UK law, that we are fair minded and pragmatic when bringing about legislation. Their action to using the Dotas list and applying retrospective action is utterly non-Conservative, and many who have voted for them in the past will NEVER vote for them again.

The LibLabCons really are all the same nowadays, look for easy pickings for taking money from people so they can spend it on crazy issues like foreign aid when we have many in UK using food banks!