HMRC Enquiries: Bedouin/Redstone

[bluemonkey71]

Tell them what you've just told him.

[webberg]

What would be the best thing to say to hmrc? What would you say in my circumstances?

Get advice.

You're potentially admitting a significant under declaration of income (i.e. loans are 200% of income) and opening yourself to penalties as well as tax and interest. This may lead to questions about other years.

Your figures are relatively modest but your questions are the same as those who have many multiples of your numbers at stake. As such any adviser worth his/her salt will be able to answer these in 30 minutes.

Tax advisers charge between £200 and £1,000 an hour. They will tell you in advance, when asked, what their rate is and you can choose how long you speak with them. As with life in general, you get what you pay for.

If it is correct that the quantum of your loans was as you say and you have the resources, settlement is sensible but not if the final bill is excessively loaded with interest and penalties and NIC.

Get advice.

[Peasnall]

Get advice.

You're potentially admitting a significant under declaration of income (i.e. loans are 200% of income) and opening yourself to penalties as well as tax and interest. This may lead to questions about other years.

Your figures are relatively modest but your questions are the same as those who have many multiples of your numbers at stake. As such any adviser worth his/her salt will be able to answer these in 30 minutes.

Tax advisers charge between £200 and £1,000 an hour. They will tell you in advance, when asked, what their rate is and you can choose how long you speak with them. As with life in general, you get what you pay for.

If it is correct that the quantum of your loans was as you say and you have the resources, settlement is sensible but not if the final bill is excessively loaded with interest and penalties and NIC.

Get advice.

I got advice from an accountant and she said ring them and tell them you earnt £8000 but you say I earnt £2500. Basically declare everything to them.

Why shouldn't I declare it to them ? I'm wanting to get this sorted now rather than when they contact me in a few years.

I worked for redstone in 2014 so will the penalties be that bad?

I can't just ignore this and wait for a letter to arrive in a few years time can I?

[DotasScandal]

I got advice from an accountant and she said ring them and tell them you earnt £8000 but you say I earnt £2500. Basically declare everything to them.

Why shouldn't I declare it to them ? I'm wanting to get this sorted now rather than when they contact me in a few years.

I worked for redstone in 2014 so will the penalties be that bad?

I can't just ignore this and wait for a letter to arrive in a few years time can I?

Look, no one here told you to ignore it, quite the opposite.
An accountant and a tax advisor are not the same.
Get advice from a tax advisor, as the benevolent folks above have recommended.

[CrapshotUK]

Bedouin/Redstone

Hi Newbie here

I was involved with Bedouin and then Redstone, now Ltd.

I have been reading through some of the threads and posts, its reassuring to see I am not alone, but I could really kick myself for being so gullible and naïve in the first place.

Ive received a letter stating HMRC's intention to issue a Discovery Notice as my previous reply for year ending April 2013 (as advised by Bedouin) was to say they were out of time to request further information on my Self assessment for that year.

Is it worth me joining Big Group yet?
Does this group cover my circumstances?
And if I do join can I legitimately pay via my Ltd company?

Thanks in advance

[chubacabra]

Hi Newbie here

I was involved with Bedouin and then Redstone, now Ltd.

I have been reading through some of the threads and posts, its reassuring to see I am not alone, but I could really kick myself for being so gullible and naïve in the first place.

Ive received a letter stating HMRC's intention to issue a Discovery Notice as my previous reply for year ending April 2013 (as advised by Bedouin) was to say they were out of time to request further information on my Self assessment for that year.

Is it worth me joining Big Group yet?
Does this group cover my circumstances?
And if I do join can I legitimately pay via my Ltd company?

Thanks in advance

Hi CS,

Yep I've had this fiasco going on for many years now and know where you're coming from. I've had the same anger at how gullible I was but think that's all part of coming to terms with the situation in front of us.

I think the blame lies with the scheme providers for essentially mis-selling the products, and even more so with HMRC for allowing the scheme providers to act with impunity then, and even TODAY.

Besides, hindsight is 20/20 - All we can do is deal with where we are now.

You can appeal the decision in the interim and ask that they postpone the collection of the disputed amount as long as the scheme was non DOTAS. This should buy you some time to get advice etc.

I would say it's well worth joining Big Group, I am a member and whole heartedly recommend them. IMHO they represent the best option if you have decided to fight this. There are some great initiatives and ideas on the go, and it also allows a private place to discuss.

No you cannot pay via your Ltd Co. But to be honest it's not a lotta dosh in the grand scheme of things

[MMMmmm what to do next]

Hi CS,

Yep I've had this fiasco going on for many years now and know where you're coming from. I've had the same anger at how gullible I was but think that's all part of coming to terms with the situation in front of us.

I think the blame lies with the scheme providers for essentially mis-selling the products, and even more so with HMRC for allowing the scheme providers to act with impunity then, and even TODAY.

Besides, hindsight is 20/20 - All we can do is deal with where we are now.

You can appeal the decision in the interim and ask that they postpone the collection of the disputed amount as long as the scheme was non DOTAS. This should buy you some time to get advice etc.

I would say it's well worth joining Big Group, I am a member and whole heartedly recommend them. IMHO they represent the best option if you have decided to fight this. There are some great initiatives and ideas on the go, and it also allows a private place to discuss.

No you cannot pay via your Ltd Co. But to be honest it's not a lotta dosh in the grand scheme of things

OK, my first post in response to this thread......so be kind to me.

I’ve read through lots of the information here from people caught up in schemes now being investigated by HMRC – this is my story, to which I need to make a decision on which way to go, rollover or fight. I’m not an accountant, or tax specialist just one of the many gullible contractors who now needs to fix things and decide my next move.

I operated as LTD until April 2012 – a fellow contractor in the same office suggested I give Bedouin a call – I did just that and had a chat with a chap who suggest he come to my place of work (FTSE top 10 company) to demonstrate the ‘benefits’ of the scheme
The shiny suit (name of Jon Bannister) sold me the story – legal, HMRC compliant, endorsed by XXX etc etc so I signed up in good faith (the mistake)
I stayed with Bedouin/Redstone from April 2012 until March 2015 – they wanted to change names again – this made me nervous so I moved to Castlemaine. I stayed with Castlemaine until Dec 2015 – I am now LTD again.

August 2015 I receive a letter form HMRC saying: “About the enclosed self-assessment tax return for year ending 5 April 2012”

“We have been in consultation with our colleagues at HMRC Counter Avoidance. We believe that you may have participated in a tax avoidance scheme. You may have received money which was described as a loan or advance on which you have not paid tax. You should consider including these amounts in the return as your income. If you choose not to declare this as income then enter details of the amounts received in the relevant which space box”

This is the point at which I realised things were going to get sticky. I did what many of you have done, I called Bedouin/Redstone and got the bog standard response “we advise you not to declare this as income blah blah…”
Luckily for me I was not officially employed with Bedouin during tax year 2011-12 so my response back to HMRC was clear, there was nothing to declare.

January 2016 – I receive 2 self-assessment requests: (both forms are different not sure if this has any meaning?)

1 - Notice re complete a tax return 2013-2014 from HMRC pay as you go self-assessment BX9 1AS
2 - Notice to complete a tax return 2014-2015 from HMRC Officer in charge BX9 1AS

I have until the end of this month to decide what to do. I have not received any demands, nor an APN – I understand from reading the various threads that Bedouin are non Dotas which means APN’s may not apply. I know I will get no support from Bedouin/Redstone any maybe even Castlemaine (I have just received a note from them staying they will provide an accountant to help with the tax return for the period I operated with them) I still don’t expect this to help – I know this is on me to fix. I have 2 options. Fight or Rollover. I am not well enough informed to know what to do just yet.

To rollover (with reluctance)
1 - I get this over with quickly I hopefully avoid any possible penalties and further interest charges and I get to put this in the past – this situation is not psychological good for me.
2 - Is there anyone out there that has done just this? What was your experience?
3 - Could it be HMRC are just fishing or is this just the start of an investigation, do they already know the answer....?

To fight (which is my instinct)
1 - I have no idea what my rights are and what to do next – I have until the end of this month to submit my SA for the 2 periods being asked. Questions I have are:
2 - What do I put on the forms?
3 - I know someone who is part of BIG Group – this seems to have ‘purchased’ more time from HMRC – is this just delaying the inevitable or do groups such as BIG work?
4 - Do we as contractors in these schemes have a fighting chance as so much of this seems to be in the hands of the courts for cases that are yet to be held and the outcomes understood
5 - If I fight and the courts rule against us surely this would mean HMRC then can grab what they believe to be ‘tax’ plus penalties, plus interest - I assume this would be a number much larger than if I rolled over now?

My position is I need to think carefully but make a decision soon – It will more than likely mean the sale of my home regardless

Any advice from all you good people in similar situations?

[thebear14]

Can't provide any reasonable advice I'm afraid, my last communication with HMRC was in Sept last year where I returned a SA for 11/12 (when I was permanent PAYE, I did ask for clarification on the evidence for their allegation I was taking part in tax avoidance for that year).

My time with Bedouin was during 12/13, there has been no further response from HMRC for either 11/12 or 12/12 since I submitted the SA

[rcgeorge23]

Whether you decide to fight or settle, it's worth joining big group anyway. Plenty of advice from supportive people in exactly the same situation as you.

[LandRover]

We all need to unite and fight back and campaign.

People need to get into groups and for a pittance per month Big Group is for me the way forward.