HMRC Enquiries: Bedouin/Redstone

[EBTContractor]

Hi, I've just found this forum and reading these posts with interest. I have to complete a self assessment for 2013/2014. Having used bedouin/redstone for 5 months of that period do I need to worry? Have been advised to only declare what's on P60 by two accountants. Obviously there were expenses and 'loans' received.

Is Beduin/Redstone dotas registered and do you have a scheme reference number?

[thebear14]

I received a response back from hmrc on this matter, literally all it said was thanks for sending on the info and they'll be in touch if they need anything else

[PrtScn]

I received a response back from hmrc on this matter, literally all it said was thanks for sending on the info and they'll be in touch if they need anything else

Same here. Now to play the waiting game....

[EBTContractor]

Same here. Now to play the waiting game....

How long did it take for them to write back? Ive not heard aything back. Been a month...

[recce45]

Bedouin is Edge and Redstone

Ive been talking to a Tony Pithers who works for Bedouin but when i called his mobile from a diff number
he answered with `Edge` instead

Yep. I've received the same. I've already spoken with Michelle at Redstone about this and she confirmed there are others that have also received this. She provided a reply I used to get more time. I was given about 4 weeks up to Christmas to provide the information. She provided answers to the questions but also a letter I sent to HMRC stating that I'd received their letter requesting information but that due to the nature of the information requested it only seemed reasonable that I'd need longer to pull it all together and that I'd forward it once that was done.

Give Redstone a call and have a chat.

Separately...I responded to a post in the Edge EBT forum (http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-...ml#post2024269). This was talking about possible funny business going on at Redstone with company name registration or something. On the back of that information I spoke with Michelle at Redstone and in the processes of Michelle and I missing each others calls, on 1 occasion when I called back the Redstone number was answered with a "hello, this is Bedouin. When I challenged Michelle about this she said that a shared reception service was used and hence the mix up. So are Bedouin and Redstone (who some think were previously Edge) the same thing? Was Redstone previously Edge? Whilst some working at Edge (at least Michelle) are now at Redstone its not clear if this was a migration of users from 1 provider to another when Edge closed down or is Redstone part of Bedouin and they genuinely are sharing services with Bedouin. The link between Edge and Redstone could be the reason I got the 2012/ 2013 COP 8 enquiry, or it could have been because I personally was already on their radar with EBT via Norla then Edge (the Redstone connection), or just that my return showed a very small income compared to previous years because the commercial arrangement means the Redstone loans are not declarable (just like a bank load in not). Maybe you are in the same boat.

Head up and keep fighting. We are in the right. They are wrong.

[Tom7mufc]

HMRC Focus

After receiving a letter from HMRC now fishing for information I'm coy on my position. A lot has been written about in the press regarding Offshore loans and there validity.

I'm now with a Moral quandry with the situation and am playing the waiting game with HMRC.

Have we done anything wrong as these schemes are 100% legal currently? I'm now left with a great deal of stress from reading the threatening posts on the HMRC website. At the time of taking up on the scheme they were perfectly legal and effective tax planning. Why doesn't HMRC draw a line on effective tax planning now and stop any schemes.

Back dating users and chasing funds where people perhaps can't now pay is grossly unfair.

Should we fight them?

[webberg]

After receiving a letter from HMRC now fishing for information I'm coy on my position. A lot has been written about in the press regarding Offshore loans and there validity.

I'm now with a Moral quandry with the situation and am playing the waiting game with HMRC.

Have we done anything wrong as these schemes are 100% legal currently? I'm now left with a great deal of stress from reading the threatening posts on the HMRC website. At the time of taking up on the scheme they were perfectly legal and effective tax planning. Why doesn't HMRC draw a line on effective tax planning now and stop any schemes.

Back dating users and chasing funds where people perhaps can't now pay is grossly unfair.

Should we fight them?

This is not a question of legal or not.

It's perfectly possible for the elements of the scheme to meet all the legal rules but for the interpretation of the effect of the (in this case) tax rules to differ.

Interpretation A is legal and leads to a liability of £0.

Interpretation B is legal and leads to a liability of £100.

A judge will decide whether A or B is preferred on the basis of looking at and interpreting the FACTS in the light of the PURPOSE for which the tax legislation was enacted. Compliance with the letter of the law is not enough to protect a claim that income is not taxable.

You might argue that the Courts are biased in favour of HMRC. That may be true (or not). There is the ability to appeal to higher and higher Courts and you'd have to hope that objective justice prevails. If you do not, then you are probably cynical enough not to trust the establishment or UK system at all?

Nobody in the process will accuse you of acting illegally. They will say that your interpretation is not the best one based on the FACTS.

If there was a question of illegality then you would be subject to criminal prosecution. To the best of my knowledge this is not happening.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

You might argue that the Courts are biased in favour of HMRC.

I think they are influenced by Government and public opinion. (And the justice system, and judges' wages are paid from taxes.) Increasingly, they are taking a more purposive approach to tax law. The net effect of all this is to bias them in favour of HMRC.

Would every tax (avoidance) case that is lost today have been lost 10 years ago? Probably not.

We have been told that had our scheme been taken to court, before they retrospectively changed the law in 2008, we would almost certainly have won. I'm not sure that would be the case, under the original law, now.

I guess that's progress for you.

[LossMitigate]

Got tha same letter from HMRC for Bedouin contract

I also have received an extension from HMRC for the first deadline and I do not have answers to some of the questions.

I do like the idea of forming a group of 20, so count me in Willcom.
I used Bedouin for only 4 months and this was so that I could obtain a mortgage as they provided as letter as a permanent employment with contractor salary.
I am very nervous as HMRC Letter says if do not give the requested information, they may issue a notice under Schedule 36 of the Finance Act 2008.

Question 3, If the DOTAS rules in Part 7 FA2008 have been considered ? If they have and you consider that the scheme/arrangements in question are not considered to be notifaable, please set out in details how you reached that conclusion.

No idea how to answer this ... HELP ...

[convict]

fail to see how q3 is relevant to their position. It also sounds like you are not under enquiry at present, nor under a "check" otherwise they'd already be using sch36 fa2008. Have a read of http://www.taxjournal.com/tj/article...n-powers-48161 for more info.