HMRC Enquiries: Bedouin/Redstone

[StrengthInNumbers]

Penalty is unlikely as far as I know if disclosure was done on the return and you or your advisor responded to information requests from HMRC.

As per my understanding, HMRC cannot put up penalties for going to tribunal.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

The spectre of penalties, and NICs, is a tactic to scare people into settling.

If you strip these away then the SO offers nothing.

In fact it's worse than nothing because settling means you forfeit any chance of getting the money back even the scheme was later found to be effective.

[StrengthInNumbers]

Exactly DR.

[webberg]

Penalty is unlikely as far as I know if disclosure was done on the return and you or your advisor responded to information requests from HMRC.

As per my understanding, HMRC cannot put up penalties for going to tribunal.

It would be interesting to see the evidence for this statement.

There are at least 3 cases heard in Court where disclosure was made on a return but HMRC could still make a discovery. The questions of discovery and behaviour drawing a penalty are distinct but have parallels.

As I said, evidence please because I would perhaps not be so bold.

[StrengthInNumbers]

This is based on my tax advisor's comments. You might know more but he clearly said that as our self assessments had full disclosure and we have been responding to HMRC requests i.e. Co-operating with HMRC, penalties should not happen.

[webberg]

This is based on my tax advisor's comments. You might know more but he clearly said that as our self assessments had full disclosure and we have been responding to HMRC requests i.e. Co-operating with HMRC, penalties should not happen.

Thank you.

if I may draw a comparison with a tax scheme defeated recently called Icebreaker.

This was a mass marketed scheme investing in a range of intellectual property. The partnerships were said to be trading or at least profitable. HMRC disagreed. The judge has sided with HMRC so far.

After the first decision HMRC sent our penalty questionnaires. these started with the premise that the taxpayer "knew" that the scheme was tax avoidance and that alone was enough to bring a penalty.

There is no question that full disclosure was made.

With respect to your tax adviser I would suggest that the situation is not as straightforward as full disclosure = no penalty.

[StrengthInNumbers]

http://www.lexology.com/library/deta...8-01ab2ee6f0ac

Here we go. Some proof😀

[webberg]

Tribunal confirms no penalty for implementing tax avoidance scheme - Lexology

Here we go. Some proof😀

Many thanks.

I'll read this in more depth and give it some thought.

[nelmo]

My advice to anyone who wants to use Bedouin for their tax is to AVOID THEM because it will only come back and bite you big time! You do not want to be in my situation or even worse, the situation of anyone who used them for many more years than myself. Thankfully, I only used them for 2 years and then was forced to use another company as the agency I went to refused to have anything to do with them. I was annoyed at the time but SO grateful now.

I have had demands for 2009-10 (£7000) and 2010-11 (£5700) and despite it being very difficult to come up with this money, I am paying it because I just want it all over and done with. I did speak within Sarah Icely at Bedouin and she said they have a standard reply template to 5send back to HMRC. I'm not sure I'll bother as it will just prolong their demands and increase the interest owing.

So, I will pay this 2nd demand now and never again trust some scheme like this that sounds too good to be true.

Hi, tried to PM you but don't seem to have permission?

Can you (or anyone else) provide me with contact details for Bedouin? I am not with them any more and I cannot get anyone to reply to me (no real surprise there as they are not making money out of me any more). A Sarah Icely was mentioned?

Or does anyone have the wording of the standard response to make to HMRC?

EDIT: actually phoned the sales line (not expecting much) and amazingly got through to someone helpful. Email your HMRC letter to '[email protected]'.

I'm impressed Bedouin are not just washing their hands of the issue...

[gettingangry]

Disclosure v Discovery

It would be interesting to see the evidence for this statement.

There are at least 3 cases heard in Court where disclosure was made on a return but HMRC could still make a discovery. The questions of discovery and behaviour drawing a penalty are distinct but have parallels.

As I said, evidence please because I would perhaps not be so bold.

Hi which cases are these? i've found this one where full disclosure was made and it was ruled that HMRC could not issue a discovery notice
HMRC not entitled to discovery assessment | AccountingWEB