hector ackowldeges they said schema outside dotas but that doesn't mean tax not due

[pimpernell]

Them's the rules.

The way in which DOTAS is being used is certainly NOT what was the original intention.

The original plan was to alert HMRC to schemes that had certain characteristics and allow them to take action more quickly.

That was fine except that HMRC got flooded with schemes and had not enough people to deal with them and if necessary draw up legislation. Instead DOTAS became a warehouse of potential targets for action which although perhaps not retrospective, was at least long delayed and suffered as a result.

One of the (many) frustrating consequences is that the long silence from HMRC between issuing a COP8 etc and actually taking any action has lulled a lot of people into thinking that they've been forgotten or that their position is agreed.

So the effect of potentially unfair rules has been made worse by lack of HMRC resource, but in Court all is blamed on the taxpayer.

You couldn't make it up.

Rob,

Have I read somewhere that APNs etc will all be issued within 24 months? Does that mean that HMRC all have gone through their back catalogue of COP8s etc, by then; and that there is some sort of window that will shut? Or is the legislation in perpetuity - i.e. they can take as long as they like?

And of course there wil continue to be FTTs UTTs etc - I understand that. But its the lack of visibility that's annoying.

[Rob79]

Rob,

Have I read somewhere that APNs etc will all be issued within 24 months? Does that mean that HMRC all have gone through their back catalogue of COP8s etc, by then; and that there is some sort of window that will shut? Or is the legislation in perpetuity - i.e. they can take as long as they like?

And of course there wil continue to be FTTs UTTs etc - I understand that. But its the lack of visibility that's annoying.

The APN program is being executed over 20 months from July this year.

This is not a window but simply a function of the number of "disputes" over the available resource.

We've seen the Ingenious Media film schemes known as IFP 1 and 2 targeted with those members getting APN's last week. That scheme goes to Court on 7th November this year and the settlement opportunity will close on 31st October. I have views about the timing here. It's also worth pointing out that Ingenious Media insist that these are genuine investment schemes.

We know that a film scheme called Eclipse is likely to be high on the priority list and I suspect that another scheme called Liberty will not be far behind.

The rules are here to stay I'm afraid. Do not hold out any hope of your scheme missing a statutory window.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Hi Rob

Are you expecting that all DOTAS schemes will get APNs?

Do you think it's a given that, if your SRN is on the published list, you will eventually receive APNs?

I can't help being a bit cynical and thinking that HMRC will be cherry picking from that list.

Cheers
DR

[regron]

I can't help being a bit cynical and thinking that HMRC will be cherry picking from that list.

Cheers
DR

That is exactly what I am thinking and to be more honest, hoping they are doing. Surely they have to tread carefully when looking at issuing APN's to schemes that are yet to be determined in the courts. Especially when Bankruptcy etc... is very much the end game with a lot of people !!!!

[Rob79]

Hi Rob

Are you expecting that all DOTAS schemes will get APNs?

Do you think it's a given that, if your SRN is on the published list, you will eventually receive APNs?

I can't help being a bit cynical and thinking that HMRC will be cherry picking from that list.

Cheers
DR

Some of the schemes with an SRN and which appear on the list have either been agreed (with or without adjustment) or have been dealt with in other ways. Those will not get an APN.

Some declared schemes have been disclosed "just in case". I think once reviewed, they will not get an APN.

How many will get APN's? Very difficult to say but I suspect 70%.

Cherry picking? Yes HMRC has already done that in order to create (in my opinion) unfair pressure on some taxpayers to take a settlement offer.

Given that the contractor loan settlement offer expires in January 2015 it would not surprise me to see an APN arriving (sans gift wrap) for many around Christmas.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Thanks Rob.

I guess HMRC will be looking for the most efficient means of meeting their targets.

Call me cynical but I bet the Government are only interested in the money.

Some schemes will be better than others in terms of "£return on effort". That's what I meant by cherry picking.

[Rob79]

Thanks Rob.

I guess HMRC will be looking for the most efficient means of meeting their targets.

Call me cynical but I bet the Government are only interested in the money.

Some schemes will be better than others in terms of "£return on effort". That's what I meant by cherry picking.

Hard to disagree with that.

[Rob79]

That is exactly what I am thinking and to be more honest, hoping they are doing. Surely they have to tread carefully when looking at issuing APN's to schemes that are yet to be determined in the courts. Especially when Bankruptcy etc... is very much the end game with a lot of people !!!!

I will repeat a warning here.

The APN regime is designed to collect tax from cases about to enter litigation or where the litigation is ongoing and not yet final.

The fact that something is not yet determined is EXACTLY the time to issue an APN in order to encourage taxpayers to cooperate. (At least that's the Government's view as HMRC has convinced them that delay in settling is ALWAYS the fault of the taxpayer.).

Bankruptcy etc - again no clear policy (asked again this afternoon and got no response) and the feeling I get from the guys handling the stuff I deal with is that they just don't care because they give no thought to the demographic of their victims.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Bankruptcy etc - again no clear policy (asked again this afternoon and got no response) and the feeling I get from the guys handling the stuff I deal with is that they just don't care because they give no thought to the demographic of their victims.

At the end of the day HMRC are merely implementing a law that Parliament passed.

It's not their concern if the law results in thousands of bankruptcies.

The issue of bankruptcy was raised during the debate in Parliament but MPs still passed it knowing this could be the outcome. The Minister (Gauke) said he could give no assurances that people would not be bankrupted.