Settlement Opportunity

[frodo]

APNs have been issued already with first one in August - No JR is happening. For HMRC it is a process to forward the case for debt collection - another department and they will follow the book without worrying about JR or what accountants think. Start saving and start preparing for a legal battle - rest all is talk

Excuse ignorance, what is a JR?

[StrengthInNumbers]

Judicial Review
To challenge government's actions in court

[jbryce]

APNs have been issued already with first one in August - No JR is happening. For HMRC it is a process to forward the case for debt collection - another department and they will follow the book without worrying about JR or what accountants think. Start saving and start preparing for a legal battle - rest all is talk

JRs will follow at some point - doubt they'll have much of an impact.

In the end, at the bitter end, you as a scheme user will end up in front of an FTT. Your case will stand or fall based on the effectiveness of the scheme that you used. If, for example, you used a scheme similar to the Rangers one, then you may be feeling that you have a reasonable chance. If you are using some mad Boyle like FX scheme then you probably have less of an opportunity.

[tarbera]

APNs have been issued already with first one in August - No JR is happening. For HMRC it is a process to forward the case for debt collection - another department and they will follow the book without worrying about JR or what accountants think. Start saving and start preparing for a legal battle - rest all is talk

Agreed HMRC collections will follow to the book, after about 3 months it will have moved from tax office polite collectors to guys that collect on commission, then in about 3 months you will be ended

5 years repayment plan is crazy talk

[jbryce]

Agreed HMRC collections will follow to the book, after about 3 months it will have moved from tax office polite collectors to guys that collect on commission, then in about 3 months you will be ended

5 years repayment plan is crazy talk

5 years is a tad bonkers, but there is no equivalent that will see an individual bankrupted before their case has come to court.
So, you receive an APN, you request an FTT to get your case in front of a Judge. You can't pay the APN, you are pursued to bankruptcy against an enforceable debt. Subsequently you get a date for your FTT and, for the sake of argument you are one of the 20% that do win against HMRC, you will have been bankrupted in a situation where you won you case.

Using HMRCs stats, 1 in 5 people who will be bankrupted as a result of the non ability to pay an APN would have won in court. Given that an insolvency court will have to rule you Bankrupt, how can thy do that when there is 20% possibility that the debt may not be valid in the first place??????

[BrilloPad]

APNs have been issued already with first one in August - No JR is happening. For HMRC it is a process to forward the case for debt collection - another department and they will follow the book without worrying about JR or what accountants think. Start saving and start preparing for a legal battle - rest all is talk

As soon as anyone from Montpelier receives one there will be a JR.

[StrengthInNumbers]

Good to know if that's the case. To have any luck with JR all promoters should have come together. I was told a leading silk view was it was not worth it.

Personally I feel JR should have a good chance but legal world is all twisted.

[zimbtar]

Strength - do you mean it is just not worth the JR from a silks point of view?

I have no way of paying the SO - and so no way of paying the APN come Jan - or in the distant future, not alone there I know.

So I see no good end to this for me.

[jbryce]

Good to know if that's the case. To have any luck with JR all promoters should have come together. I was told a leading silk view was it was not worth it.

Personally I feel JR should have a good chance but legal world is all twisted.

One would hope a different silk from the ones that endorsed a lot of these products.
A JR could be raised against EU law, natural justice or human rights legislation. I'd anticipate a JR for the situation of bankruptcy for non payment of an APN which is being applied retrospectively.

[AlCapone]

It's very unlikely that the facts, the documents, the timings, the money flows, the process etc are "identical". The forensic legal analysis is almost certain to throw up differences and this is HMRC's "get out of jail free" card.

If HMRC lose a "very similar" scheme then your case is much better. However HMRC will refuse to divulge details on the similar scheme on grounds of client confidentiality so you may never actually be able to prove in a Court that the schemes are very similar.

So, in issuing a Follower Notice will HMRC be bound by the same requirement to be "very similar"? Unfortunately is appears not. It appears that they can cherry pick certain elements of decisions.

HMRC's defence of using SRN's is that every scheme user should have been informed of the SRN and should be using it. Failure to do so is penalty territory.

It's also a fact that the names that promoters use change form time to time and also a promoter may go out if business, phoenix into NewCo and launch essentially the same scheme, so do they have different names? yes.

Not fair really.

There is a team defending the scheme I was on, although the employer name is different to the one that is going to tribunal. The group tell me that it is the scheme that is being targeted not the employer. In the COP8 it mentions that the scheme is being investigated. The scheme seems to be the constant here. Employer doesn't seem relevant from what I'm seeing.