Why bother with an EU referendum?

[VectraMan]

It's all OK.

It means we can disband parliament and the monarchy, and sell off the palace of Westminster and Buckingham Palace as buy-to-let flats. Who needs democracy

Parliament, the monarchy, Buckingham Palace and the Palace of Westminster are the examples of democracy you come up with?

In truth we'd have a much more democratic society if we were to surrender to a federal EU, though that would mean letting all the people vote and not just the British which I know from previous arguments isn't your definition of democracy.

[speling bee]

Parliament, the monarchy, Buckingham Palace and the Palace of Westminster are the examples of democracy you come up with?

In truth we'd have a much more democratic society if we were to surrender to a federal EU, though that would mean letting all the people vote and not just the British which I know from previous arguments isn't your definition of democracy.

Bring back the witenagemot.

[KentPhilip]

We need them. But lets move them up to a mill town in Lancashire beginning with "B".

Burnley?
Blackburn?
Bolton?
Bury?

Hang on a minute, they all bloody begin with "B"

[KentPhilip]

Parliament, the monarchy, Buckingham Palace and the Palace of Westminster are the examples of democracy you come up with?

In truth we'd have a much more democratic society if we were to surrender to a federal EU, though that would mean letting all the people vote and not just the British which I know from previous arguments isn't your definition of democracy.

Well OK Buckingham Palace and the House of Lords are not democratic. But the commons is, and they are the ones with the real power.

A federal EU has no democracy because all new EU laws originate from the European Commission, and the people who sit on that are appointed, not elected, by the heads of state of the constituent countries (the European Council).
The European Parliament (who are elected) are allowed to debate bills handed to them by the European Commission, but not to amend those bills or submit their own.

And in any case, who in Britain wants people outside the UK deciding on British affairs, even if they were voted in in that foreign country?

[speling bee]

Well OK Buckingham Palace and the House of Lords are not democratic. But the commons is, and they are the ones with the real power.

A federal EU has no democracy because all new EU laws originate from the European Commission, and the people who sit on that are appointed, not elected, by the heads of state of the constituent countries (the European Council).
The European Parliament (who are elected) are allowed to debate bills handed to them by the European Commission, but not to amend those bills or submit their own.

And in any case, who in Britain wants people outside the UK deciding on British affairs, even if they were voted in in that foreign country?

So if the European Parliament is granted the power to amend bills and submit their own, are you good with the EU again?

[KentPhilip]

So if the European Parliament is granted the power to amend bills and submit their own, are you good with the EU again?

Well it would be a positive step, which means it will never happen.
But even if it did happen I would not be "good" with the EU. I don't want any europeans lording it over us in the UK. The only people the UK should have is those explicitly given a mandate for this by British voters ONLY.

[speling bee]

Well it would be a positive step, which means it will never happen.
But even if it did happen I would not be "good" with the EU. I don't want any europeans lording it over us in the UK. The only people the UK should have is those explicitly given a mandate for this by British voters ONLY.

Should working class people accept middle and ruling class people making their laws for them?

[BrilloPad]

Should working class people accept middle and ruling class people making their laws for them?

Yes. Because they vote for who the Sun tells them to. They should stick to reading the back page.

[DodgyAgent]

So if the European Parliament is granted the power to amend bills and submit their own, are you good with the EU again?

The only way the EU can work as a democratic institution is if it copies the constitution of the USA. Until it can do this it should simply be a free trade area with certain rules on basic and interchangeable standards of training (for doctors etc) , pollution etc (such as the European water directive which does not allow national monopolies to get away with low standards of water and air quality).

[darmstadt]

Well OK Buckingham Palace and the House of Lords are not democratic. But the commons is, and they are the ones with the real power.

A federal EU has no democracy because all new EU laws originate from the European Commission, and the people who sit on that are appointed, not elected, by the heads of state of the constituent countries (the European Council).
The European Parliament (who are elected) are allowed to debate bills handed to them by the European Commission, but not to amend those bills or submit their own.

And in any case, who in Britain wants people outside the UK deciding on British affairs, even if they were voted in in that foreign country?

The facts are as so:

A new team of 28 Commissioners (one from each EU country) is appointed every five years.

Commissioners are selected by the Member States governments. If an EU member state was to put forward an elected candidate, then it would be extremely difficult for the European Parliament to reject that candidate. The Commissioners, once selected, have to be validated by the MEPs in the European Parliament, but they have been known to reject people.

“The European Council nominates a candidate to be president of the Commission, who must be approved by a majority of members of the European Parliament. If the MEPs reject the candidate, the Council has one month to put forward another. The president-elect chooses the commissioners (and their policy area) from candidates put forward by EU countries. The list of commissioners is then submitted for approval (by qualified majority) first to the Council of Ministers, then to Parliament. If Parliament approves, the new Commission is officially appointed by the Council.

If UKIP have such a problem with these so-called ‘unelected bureaucrats’ then why don’t they complain about unelected civil servants, or those occupying the House of Lords seats that they demand? We should ask them how they would change the system to make it more democratic? They seem happy to take the EU cash, and line their pockets with it and yet not vote on important issues affecting people all over the EU.