Sloping Shoulders at the Beeb

[sasguru]

Actually, not in the second case, it's not - my examples are of physical features, not the assumption that everyone with the appearance of a certain region is from the same place.

******, being a corruption of negro, meaning simply "black", as in skin, is closer, yes. The only reason it is seen as racist is because the pronunciation "******" is the corruption that was born in the US south during slavery. It was not a racist term so much, but because of the circumstances where it was used it became associated heavily with negativity. Nowadays, that negativity has made people call it racist. It's the same reason why it's OK for you to call someone "black", but not "negro". How the spanish speakers in America cope I don't know.

As you seem to have reacted with a knee-jerk PC attitude instead of using rational thought, I guess that makes you the cretin, cretin.

And yes, it's a corruption of the word, not a contraction, cretin.

So you're arguing that n**ger is not a racist term - and then you call me a cretin?
Like I said, where the fook do we find these morons?

[Ticktock]

So you're arguing that n**ger is not a racist term - and then you call me a cretin?
Like I said, where the fook do we find these morons?

No, I'm saying that it did not begin as a racist term, it began as people trying to pronounce a Spanish word and failing. You could try reading the post you are criticising, moron.

Then, because of its continued use in the world of slavery it became a hated term.
Because it is a hated term that is only used about black people it is now termed racist, whereas calling them "black" is not racist, whereas calling them "negro" is, whereas calling them "African American" (since this largely is / was an American thing) is not (even if they're not of African heritage).
Where it differs from "black" is that it is not a natural word, it is a corruption, it is not used in any other sense, so its use is restricted to people (whether they know it or not) referring back to slavery.

[original PM]

not sure what you lot are on about but all the black gangsters where I am seem to be called Monica.

They are all like

Yo Monica,

What's up Monica

Lets go ***** some b*ches Monica

[SaltyLevels]

Yes, it's a contraction, but if it's meant to be derogatory, then it's offensive. For once, this isn't PC craziness, it's just plain decency. People don't call Pakistanis Pakis as it's a contraction, it's intended to be derogatory.

Aussies use it all the time, so I think it is safe to assume it's derogatory. Pauline whatsername used to use it all the time in her 'One Nation' speeches. Nuff said really.

[Ticktock]

People don't call Pakistanis Pakis as it's a contraction, it's intended to be derogatory.

Not quite. People used to use "Paki" for anyone who had the slightest resemblence of being from the region, whether Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi or whatever. This is what became derogatory (especially in light of relations between those countries) - saying that it doesn't matter where you're from, I'm going to assume that you're from an unfriendly country.
As "Paki" means "pure", the term itself is not what is insulting - it is the assumption than anyone of a vaguely similar appearance is from a country that some viewed as, if not an enemy, then at least contrary to their own.
In fact it goes deeper, as the name of the country originally was meant to refer to the regions being included (Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh) - it's like a hugely more offensive way of calling a Yorkshire man a Lancastrian or vice versa.

If you look at people like FIL, they don't use it meaning to be derogatory, they use it as shorthand for anyone from the region (which is in itself derogatory). Apparently he doesn't understand "Asian" if he's uncertain of the country of origin. Deliberate racists (as opposed to the more benign "not meant to be offensive even if they are" type) used it in a similar way, but intending for it to be insulting - more "I don't care where you're from" instead of "I don't know where you're from".

[SaltyLevels]

.....

Sorry, I disagree; I think anyone that uses the term 'Paki' doesn't use it for anything other than an intentional slur. Regardless if its historical background, I am talking about the here and now and, imo, it's an intentional slur.

[Ticktock]

Sorry, I disagree; I think anyone that uses the term 'Paki' doesn't use it for anything other than an intentional slur. Regardless if its historical background, I am talking about the here and now and, imo, it's an intentional slur.

I agree. It's intentional in that they can't be bothered finding out where someone is from (if they want to refer to that), and may indicate that they don't view that person as an individual, just as someone from "over there". The fact is that some people who use it don't mean to be offensive, or understand why it is offensive - which is what you stated. That does not stop it being offensive in itself.

In fact it's not racist if "it's meant to be derogatory". It's racist if the person who hears it feels it is derogatory. Intent does not come into play when it comes to cases like this.

[SaltyLevels]

In fact it's not racist if "it's meant to be derogatory". It's racist if the person who hears it feels it is derogatory. Intent does not come into play when it comes to cases like this.

Again, sorry, but I disagree. It's racist if you intend it to be racist. I know a fine chap, who happens to hail from Pakistan who doesn't get offended at all, in fact, he doesn't get offended by anything, anything at all. However, it doesn't stop it being insulting, derogatory or racist if the person has that intent.

I am going to Bradford with him a week Tuesday actually to have a 'proper' Pakistani curry night. But I'm going OT.

[Ticktock]

Again, sorry, but I disagree. It's racist if you intend it to be racist. I know a fine chap, who happens to hail from Pakistan who doesn't get offended at all, in fact, he doesn't get offended by anything, anything at all. However, it doesn't stop it being insulting, derogatory or racist if the person has that intent.

I am going to Bradford with him a week Tuesday actually to have a 'proper' Pakistani curry night. But I'm going OT.

Sorry to disagree with you, but what you think or believe is irrelevant. Go take a "sensitivity in the workplace" training course that companies inflict on their permies, or read the relevant laws. The fact that your friend doesn't get offended is great (I have similar friends) - but if someone overheard you then they could take offense and make a complaint. Going back to what Zeity said, I was regularly called "the token honky" at a previous ClientCo which had large numbers of Indians working there. I didn't take offense, and one of the guys I got on well with would regularly call himself a Paki - I wouldn't though as if someone overheard then they could make a complaint.

Hence this whole thread. The woman sueing wasn't the one targetted, but found it offensive.

[SaltyLevels]

Sorry to disagree with you, but what you think or believe is irrelevant. Go take a "sensitivity in the workplace" training course that companies inflict on their permies, or read the relevant laws. The fact that your friend doesn't get offended is great (I have similar friends) - but if someone overheard you then they could take offense and make a complaint. Going back to what Zeity said, I was regularly called "the token honky" at a previous ClientCo which had large numbers of Indians working there. I didn't take offense, and one of the guys I got on well with would regularly call himself a Paki - I wouldn't though as if someone overheard then they could make a complaint.

Hence this whole thread. The woman sueing wasn't the one targetted, but found it offensive.

I think you've actually agreed with me: I said just because someone doesn't take offence doesn't mean it isn't offensive, paraphrasing.

If I heard someone calling another person a paki, I would find it offensive.